Car Chat Podcast with Amy & Jamy
Join Amy & Jamy as they chat in Amy's car (the glorious and overtly common white Nissan Pathfinder) each month and chat about one woman of the Bible. Women need other women. We just LOVE that God includes the lives of real, broken women in the Bible and reveals how he loves, interacts, and redeems them. We are excited to surround ourselves with this community of women and be encouraged as we lean into Jesus. You don’t have to remain alone in your faith even when no one is around.
Car Chat Podcast with Amy & Jamy
NT Episode 2: Mary - Women of the Bible Series
Ahhh...we are BACK! We've missed each other and missed connecting with YOU. On this episode we chat about Mary, the mother of Jesus (MOJ). The bulk of her story is found in Luke 1-2.
You may have some preconceptions about her. But whatever you know, don't know, or think you know, you can be assured that she was one of us. She was:
- troubled and wondered.
- willing and blessed.
- treasured and pondered.
God was so faithful to Mary. He is to you too.
Whether you're navigating unexpected changes, questioning God's plan, or seeking to build a life of faithfulness despite difficulties, Mary's journey offers profound encouragement. Being "highly favored" by God doesn't guarantee comfort but promises His presence.
Her story whispers to all of us: you are not alone in your faith, your struggles, or your growth. And who God was to her, he is to you and me.
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DISCUSSION QUESTIONS: NT Episode 2 ~ Mary
*See episode description in the show notes. Review Luke 1-2 for her story.
1. What did you learn for the first time about Mary? What surprised you about her?
2. Why do you think Mary is so revered and often worshipped? What do we lose from her example when we worship her?
3. We learned that Mary’s first reaction when the angel came to her was to be troubled (Luke 1:29). What does that tell you about her? What does that tell you about your own first reactions to challenging situations?
4. Read Luke 1:38. How did Mary go from being troubled to being willing? What do you see in her response that you can practice in your own troubling circumstances?
5. Read Mary’s song in Luke 1:46-56. What stands out to you the most?
6. Review the definitions of ponder and treasure from the podcast. How did Mary practice these two things? How can you?
7. At the end of the podcast Amy and Jamy talked about the other times Mary is mentioned in Scripture. What did you learn from those encounters that you can practice in your own life?
8. Review the three descriptions from the podcast and discuss which one resonates the most with you. Mary the mother of Jesus:
· Was troubled and wondered.
· Was willing and blessed.
· Pondered and treasured.
9. “Mary is one of us. Who God is to her, He is to me.” Who was God to Mary? What does that mean to you in your life today?
Let's stay connect:
IG: @amyruthpetersen
@jamyfisher
produced by: 4110 Ministries, LLC
Well, hey everybody, welcome to the Car Chat Podcast. I'm Amy, I'm Jamie, and each month we chat in my car about one woman of the Bible. We love this community of broken yet redeemed women, both with you who are listening and with women in the Bible, to learn about the power and presence of God in our lives, and we just hope that, as you listen to these conversations, that you'll know that you are not alone in your faith and in your struggle and your growth, even when there's no one around. Our purpose on this podcast is to answer the question who is she? And as we do that, we'll discover these two things she is a lot like me, and who God is to her, he is to me. And today is our second episode. In the New Testament we have talked about Elizabeth. She was the first, yes. And today then, we are talking about Mary, yes, the mother of Jesus, mother Mary, there's lots of Marys, I know, but this is Jesus' mom.
Speaker 1:I give them all nicknames in my notes is what?
Speaker 2:and what's her nickname? Well, sometimes mother Mary, but it when I write it or type it out, it's Mary emoji.
Speaker 1:So here we are talking about Mary, the mother of Jesus, and I just wonder for you listening, there's probably very few people that don't have some preconceptions wouldn't you think?
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:Whether it's the little woman kneeling in the nativity scenes that you have with the blue headscarf?
Speaker 1:Yes, or maybe just some assumptions that you have about her with Catholic influence or um hail Mary's or all the things. I think she's a very culturized uh token. Yes, in our culture, definitely, regardless of what religion that you follow or believe or practice. So what we want to do today is just kind of clear the slate, to do what we always do with car chat Podcast, and enter into her life as a human with curiosity, as we depend on God's word for the bedrock truths that he tells us.
Speaker 2:That's right, and she was the mother of Jesus, but she wasn't God Exactly. She was a woman, yeah, a young girl, who grew up and raised kids and faced heartbreak and disappointments.
Speaker 1:It's such a good thing to remember. It is, and with that filter and lens, that's how we're going to see this whole conversation with her. So the snapshot it was really hard and I do have to share. I was really intimidated with that's a lot to put in one. What stories, what we need to to identify and camp out on, and so what I think that is really simple for my brain to handle is those instances in which Mary was the center point. Yes, there's so many places in which she is a part of things, but this is going to be a conversation where mary is the center point because we want to get to know her yeah, and we'll touch on all the places she is in scripture.
Speaker 1:I want to make sure we see those yes, I'm going to leave that to you at the end, so that's in our notes we'll get to the all the different places, because it is fascinating to step back from all the Gospels and see how the different ones weave her into different places. And even she's mentioned in Acts is she.
Speaker 2:She's not just in the birth narrative, although of course she's central to the birth there, but that's kind of we think of that. She's only there in the nativity, but there's some other spots too as a mother of Jesus, to watch him grow.
Speaker 1:To watch him, minister, to watch him die.
Speaker 1:To watch him grow to watch him, minister, to watch him die, to watch him resurrect. It's a pretty significant role as a mom, absolutely. And so let me read through this snapshot. We're going to be camping out in Luke for most of our conversation Luke 1 and 2. And this is a snapshot. You probably already know this, but this is just to give some context for the launching points that we're going to talk about with the three different ways.
Speaker 1:All right, mary is the mother of Jesus, and she was a young Jewish woman from Nazareth chosen by God to bear a son. In Luke 1, the angel Gabriel appeared to her, announcing that she would conceive Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit, despite being a virgin. With humility and faith, she accepted God's calling, declaring I am the Lord's servant. She later visited her relative Elizabeth, who confirmed Mary's blessed role in God's plan. Then, in Luke 2, mary traveled with Joseph to Bethlehem, where Jesus was born and laid in a manger. She marveled at the shepherd's testimony of angelic proclamation and pondered these events in her heart. Through all these chapters, mary is portrayed as a woman of deep faith, obedience and wonder, and entrusted with the extraordinary role of raising the son of god.
Speaker 2:I can't even imagine.
Speaker 1:I can't even imagine but a few interesting facts. Yes, this is my favorite part. Yes, I love this too, because of all the things that we think we know about her, there's always things that we don't know about the person that we're talking about, and so this was interesting. Mary as well as Joseph, but Mary was also in the lineage of David, yes, and so we see how Joseph was through Matthew's geology. Joseph was connected to King David through the line of Solomon, which was one of David's sons. That's right. And Luke tells us that Mary was connected to King David through the line of another son of David, and that's Nathan. Okay, so they both were connected and had heritage with David.
Speaker 2:Yes, which I only thought of Joseph being that, but she was too Well, and typically the way they trace those is through the father, but it's important to bring in Mary's connection because of the virgin birth. Yeah, that's true To know.
Speaker 1:Joseph is his adopted dad. The second one is that Jesus wasn't the only son that Mary had. She was the first son, but then scripture tells us in Mark 6, 3 that she had four sons after Jesus James, Joseph. I think that's it.
Speaker 2:Joseph.
Speaker 1:Judas and Simon and some unnamed daughters. Do you know anything about those?
Speaker 2:people. That's what I would have said. The minimum number of children that she is the mother of is seven Wow, and it could have been more depending on how many daughters she had, which are unnamed, because we know that she had at least two. So two is seven Wow.
Speaker 1:And so she might have had a few more. And to even think of Jesus growing up in a household with lots of brothers and sisters is pretty cool and normalized to think about.
Speaker 2:It does, and even that already that brings Mary back to our own realm, because we just imagine her. You know that she's this angelic figure, mother of Jesus, but she was an actual mother in real life of all these other kids and they didn't always get along.
Speaker 1:We're going to see that too, and think about Mary as a mother managing and raising and loving all these children, in addition to having one actually being a perfect kid, which was Jesus, and all of that that could transpire with the family.
Speaker 2:That's everything he was preparing for, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's Mary a mother. And then here's the third thing that I think is really interesting about Mary that she was the only person present with Jesus at his birth and then with Jesus at his earthly death. Yeah, that's pretty amazing. I mean she had, and as his resurrection she had the full arc of his life, from beginning to his earthly end. And first of all, just seeing your son die, I think, just gives me so much empathy to her. But then also his ascension and scratching your head going. He, I mothered the son of.
Speaker 2:God. So much courage, and I think this will blow your mind. I think about her at Pentecost and what it must have been like to be with all of those new, new believers. Uh, to be indwelled by the Holy spirit. What that would have been. I wonder what she recognized from, from the son.
Speaker 1:She knew I mean there's so much in Mary and and even though sometimes we can put her on a pedestal, she is one of us and that is part of our goal in this conversation is to bring her into our circle of friends that we've created at this table of community, so that you can see that she is one of us and what we can learn, what God can teach us through her, her courage and her endurance.
Speaker 2:She endured a lot of difficult things. I stayed faithful. I stayed faithful.
Speaker 1:As a side note, some of you have asked if we really record this in my car. It's a construction zone and, as you can hear the beeping, we are in somewhere Midwest City in an office complex and there is a construction of a hotel happening. So that beeping is some construction truck and we hope it'll end. But that's that, okay, that's that, so it's legit. So here are three ways to describe Mary. Now, each of these three ways are two words coupled together, and the first two points are going to be happening at the annunciation is what they call it, but it's basically when Gabriel comes to Mary and announces the birth announcement or the pregnancy announcement yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1:The first one is Mary was troubled and she wondered and we see that in Luke 1 29. Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. So that is where those two words come from. Talk about understatement of the year. Troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. So that is where those two words come from understatement of the year. Seriously, let's back it up a little bit, and I do want to read what happened just before that. So in.
Speaker 1:Luke 1, verse 26 in the sixth month of Elizabeth's pregnancy, god sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in in Galilee. To a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph. Now that holds so much context. There's a lot.
Speaker 1:We'll unpack that in just a minute, and Joseph was the descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary, and the angel went to her and said greetings, you, who are highly favored. The Lord is with you. I thought it was fascinating that that's what made her troubled, and wonder is that an angel appeared to her without even telling her what's going to happen, just that he was there.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And said that you're highly favored and the Lord is with you. Okay, so troubled, and you can add to this too Troubled means it's in the Greek word, it's translated as troubled and it suggests a state of being agitated, disturbed or perplexed.
Speaker 2:Yes, when I I think I say this every episode, when you read it in different translations, which I always encourage us to do same thing deeply troubled, confused and disturbed. The NLT says and the Amplified says she was revolving in her mind and that, really, that, really that gets me, that gives me an understanding of what that means. Just something that's revolving, that's starting to spiral a little bit, and I think that's. I love this, because even for Mary, her first reaction to this it wasn't an immediate peaceful. She gets there, of course, yes, and I think less than four verses, but she gets there. But it's okay that sometimes our first reactions to things are to be troubled. That's normal, that's how life comes at us, that's good and I like that in her example.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So that's troubled, troubled, wondered. Is a desire to be curious or to be curious to know something? Yeah, a cause of astonishment and marvel and admiration. So it's just this mix of awe and revolving in your mind and wondering what in the world is happening, right?
Speaker 2:now to see the angel. I mean, every time an angel comes, he terrifies whoever. He's true. This is true in Scripture. It seems pretty consistent. I think her response is more measured than some. That's true, she was scared, she was troubled, but she was also curious. I like that. I like that. Okay, she's listening. I think, she's poised to hear from him.
Speaker 1:We see that Gabriel shows up and greets her. So it was at the greeting and the angel that she troubled and wondered, and what he said to her was greeting your highly favored, the Lord is with you. Those are great things, those are great things, but yet it made her mind spin. Yes, and she was curious to know. What in the world does this mean?
Speaker 2:She was able to hear what he said though.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:She had enough control, or curiosity, or emotional, an emotional ability to stay in the moment enough to hear him, I don't know what I would have done. I don't know what I would have done.
Speaker 1:I think in any kind of situation that catches me off guard, I react over the top, just emotional. I scream or yell or you know, just cry.
Speaker 2:I think I would have frozen. I just think I would have, just I think yeah.
Speaker 1:And then her response was worried and troubled, and the angel hadn't even said yet about her being the mother of the synagogue. The hard part's still coming, it is. But here's what's interesting too. Part of this, in the cultural context at that time, such a greeting like this is directed towards a woman would have been really unusual. Yes, and so I think that probably was a part of her curiosity and puzzlement, right, was that this was happening to her, a woman? Yeah, kind of looking over her shoulder, like who are you talking to? Are you talking to me? Yeah, I know, highly favored. That's one of the things that the angel tells her. And what does that mean in the root word of the Greek?
Speaker 2:Well, I looked that up. It comes from the same Greek word for grace and it means to make accepted or acceptable, to make lovely. It's an endearing word.
Speaker 1:So he's saying greetings, you are loved.
Speaker 2:You're graced, you're loved. There's a welcome to it. She was graced. She was a graced one. He was just even starting out saying there's a welcome to it. She was, she was graced, she was a graced one. He was just even starting out saying there's grace on you, and I think that the warmth of that probably invited her to stay calm and hear what else he had to say.
Speaker 1:All right, so she was troubled and wondered, not only at the angel and his greeting, but how does she respond this is what's interesting at the angel and his greeting, but how does she respond and this is what's interesting at the assignment. So she has the greeting and she responded with a troubledness and wondering. But then we have an assignment and we see that in Luke one, 30 through 34. Yes, and let me read that, because this just continues with the narrative that we've just said.
Speaker 1:So after she is wondering about this greeting, in verse 30, the angel said to her do not be afraid, mary, you have found favor with God. You will conceive and give birth to a son and you are to call him Jesus. He will be great and will be called the son of the most high. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father, david, and he will reign over Jacob's descendants forever. His kingdom will never end. Verse 34, and this is where Mary questions and tries to grapple with it. How will this be, mary, asked the angel. Since I am a virgin, this is a good question.
Speaker 2:That's a really great question to ask. Well, I think the description of the Messiah that the angel has just given to us is just Bible words. We've heard it so much. I wonder for her to hear this the first time. I wonder if there's any real thrill yet of of what she's called to do, or if it's just the pregnancy part.
Speaker 1:That is interesting.
Speaker 2:That's unbelievable, but everything he's saying is amazing about what, what's going to happen and she's a jew.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so she knows. She knows the story. Yes, they're anticipating.
Speaker 2:Yes, they don't know what it's going to look like, obviously, and their hopes for what he will do once he's here right already messed up, but yeah, she's. She would have as a jewish girl would have connected. It would have connected.
Speaker 1:I really think so I don't think that's supposing too much yeah, it's um a natural logical question for her to ask give me the circumstances, because, duh, how can I have a child?
Speaker 2:if I'm still a virgin shows some, because she was very young, a middle, middle teenager. I think that's crazy. I think this shows her stability, her, her, again what you've already mentioned with her curiosity. Just okay, how? That's a good question. It's a good question to ask, and she's not questioning God. She's asking a question and that's okay. That's okay. It's better than okay. It's something we need to do, that's right.
Speaker 1:To engage with him in the process, because it was not a question of disbelief or doubt absolutely, but whether, but rather of wonder and a desire to understand how this miraculous event could occur. So Zechariah was also pitched the saying that his wife is gonna be pregnant but, he asked a question basically that said okay, prove it, prove it, that's right and there's a different spirit.
Speaker 2:Hers is more of a tell me more it's. It's not a no way. And and Zacharias was no, I don't believe you, mary's was. I believe you.
Speaker 1:Tell me more, zacharias was no, that's so good. I don't believe you, you gotta you gotta prove it before, I'll believe, and there's a very big difference in the heart position, yes, and those two.
Speaker 2:If there's any question about it, we just look at God's response to both of them. That's right. He clarifies it.
Speaker 1:He does. He clarifies it and puts kind of a consequence on the doubt and disbelief in Zechariah In real life. What does this mean to us? How can we take and learn from Mary in her wondering and in her troubledness and make it something that we learn about ourselves and about God? How does that connect?
Speaker 2:The troubled.
Speaker 2:Always it has brought me so much comfort.
Speaker 2:I think we beat ourselves up spiritually when we look back on some of our, some of the ways we've reacted to things in our life and think, oh, I got so been out of shape about that. You know, I'm just the worst Christian or you know, that's not what I should have done and I think it's good to see here. It's all right for you or for you to be stirred up, it's all right for you to be kind of spiraling inside what the important part is, what you do, how, how much you're willing to listen for the next steps. And so if we let the, if we let the focus on oh, I'm not doing this, I'm not performing the way I should, I'm not handling this fish, I'm not responding the way I should, and instead just stop and listen and do listen to what he says, do the next right thing. That's that's what she did and she, she listened to more information. The angel gives her, tells her a little bit more and gives her someone else she can confide in with her.
Speaker 1:I love that.
Speaker 2:With her relative, yeah, with Elizabeth, and she's, she moves, okay, I'm willing. She moves to willingness and I think that's because of who she already was, who God already knew she was and how she she stayed in that moment and, yeah, she was troubled but she also was listening, Troubled, yet listening. Tr also was listening Troubled, yet listening Troubled, and that's okay. It is okay In our own situations. Don't beat yourself up so much when something is hard. Yes, and your response just welcome it for what it is, keep listening.
Speaker 1:And keep listening and keep being open to how he will show you and reveal to you more of what he means yes.
Speaker 1:A couple of things that I took away from this is it's okay and we've talked about this it's okay to be troubled and ask questions. Our human brains often can't fathom what God's up to, but he may not give you the exact answer in the moment. You just have to trust him. For the next step, the greeting that the angel gave her right off the bat I love this. Greetings you who are highly favored. The Lord is with you. He first gives a promise of who you are and God's closeness to you. That's right, so he's reminding us. Whenever God reveals himself to you, there will always be this essence of reminding you who you are and also his closeness to you.
Speaker 2:And the hopefulness that nothing's impossible with him. That's good.
Speaker 1:All of that is in those verses. I love that. And then the last thing that I had as a takeaway for this in your own real life is be careful not to assume what you think God means. Ask him questions, spend time talking with him and don't assume that his favor for you is going to come through comfort and reward.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wonder how much she really understood of the ridicule, the disbelief, the pain and the loss that would happen in being highly favored of God Cause this we're going to see throughout if you've already studied or know we know at least a little bit everyone does a little bit about what her life is about to be. She never steps out of the stigma of an unplanned pregnancy, she never really gets completely away from it, and she faces a lot of heartache and a lot of misunderstanding, as well as a lot of joy and being pivotal in a story that ushers salvation to all of us. It's never going to be what we expect, never, never, and I'm so glad this is such a great point. I'm so glad you brought this up, because we typically do expect God to follow along with the plans we've already made.
Speaker 1:Based on what we think. His promise is yes, and so when he says we're with us, it means he's with us, but it doesn't mean that he's going to necessarily shield us from the loss and the hard and the pain or the unexpected or the interruptions or the way we expect to live in a way that makes sense to us, even. Oh yeah, I like to live what makes sense to me.
Speaker 2:I work hard. Yeah, I want to know what's next and, in fact, I'll decide it.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:And this did not make sense to her. No, and she doesn't make sense. That's big about, and it's.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right, that's right. And so often we step into interruptions of our life, scratching our heads wondering what does this mean? Yeah, god calls us to himself, encourages us to ask him questions and keep on stepping. Okay. So she was troubled and wondered, but in the number two, point number two, she was also willing and blessed, and we're going to see this in the next couple of verses, verses 35 through 38. And I'll read those of Luke 1. The angel answered because this is his answer to her saying since I'm a virgin, how is this going to happen? So, verse 35, the angel answered the Holy Spirit will come on you and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the Holy One to be born will be called the Son of God. Even Elizabeth, your relative, is going to have a child in her old age. And she, who is said to be unable to conceive there's her willingness in verse 38. There's her willingness. Yeah, I'm your servant. Let it happen.
Speaker 2:I still would have a bajillion questions.
Speaker 1:How in the world is the holy spirit gonna power, gonna overshadow? And what does that look like? And maybe she did, but I love the recorded response that she has. I am the lord's servant. May your word to me be fulfilled. Whoo, that is an open hand of obedience she says okay, how?
Speaker 2:and his answer is not really specific enough for any of the rest of us. He basically answers with well, the thing that seems impossible is possible with God. His power will do it and she's. That's enough for her. She says okay, yes.
Speaker 1:Ooh, I want details and answers and a plan that is so good but that eliminates the trust and the faith in it.
Speaker 2:This humility and this willingness shapes her future.
Speaker 1:So this word willing means she expressed a willingness to submit to God's will and trust his plan, even if she didn't know what that meant. And of course, she now is putting the pieces together that she's going to be pregnant. It's not going to be Joseph's kid. Joseph's going to know that she's going to be pregnant. They're not going to be Joseph's kid. Joseph's going to know that she's going to be pregnant. They're not married yet, they're only betrothed. And so I wonder, if she is it's beginning to hit the social implications of this, and I would hope, um, I would think, that she probably would. Yeah. So her response, um, how do you think she moved from this question into the willingness? This question of how can this be into it is, as you have said, I think it was.
Speaker 2:The bottom line of that, I think, is trust. She knows God enough and has trusted him with smaller things in her life, that it's not a big leap to her to trust him. That speaks Because there's nothing else. There's no other proof. We don't know anything of her experience that would give her some kind of reassurance. But maybe, I mean maybe there's something in her experience, but I think it's likely she already had a pattern of trusting God and so she chose to do that here too.
Speaker 1:It's so much more, it goes had a pattern of trusting God, and so she chose to do that. Here, too, it's so much more. It goes so much deeper than the story that we're looking at and most of these women. It goes beyond whether it turned bad or whether it ended up being good in a model that we can follow. There's, there's so much more to the story that happened beforehand to bring us to this point and the same thing with Mary. Now I did some looking and to see what actually the implications socially for her for her family and on the impacts that this is going to hurt our feelings, right?
Speaker 2:I know this makes me sad, for her.
Speaker 1:So in the Jewish law it was such a grave transgression to be pregnant and be betrothed but not married. And that is if the husband is the father, right. But Joseph knows he's not the father and so we're not going into Joseph's story, that's found in Matthew. But but the way that he was so um, he was going to divorce her quietly.
Speaker 2:And even that shows that he was a gracious, generous, kind man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because that was huge, because as a grave transition transgression, potentially leading to severe consequences, including death by stoning yeah, he killed yeah he could have. Yeah, and I'm sure in her brain she was like, oh boy, but she still said, may it be as you have said. And, knowing that this would happen, she trusted that God would work it out With Joseph. Then let's kind of back up a little. She was betrothed to him, which is a binding legal agreement, and they weren't married yet. And what's the timeline of all those things?
Speaker 2:I don't know about the timeline.
Speaker 1:That's a good question, I think it's a year in between, I think it actually.
Speaker 2:I know that it's legal still, but they aren't living together and definitely aren't sleeping together.
Speaker 1:Exactly. They haven't consummated their relationship. So there's this time in between, and that's when this is all coming down. And then in Matthew 1, 19, like I just mentioned, that Joseph initially intended to divorce her, so that, and it says that Mary would avoid public scandal and so that she could avoid the death penalty.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so she could just go home and live. Yeah, it would have been shameful, but she could just safely live with her family.
Speaker 1:So that was Joseph's plan until an angel came to him in a dream and said it is the son of God.
Speaker 2:I know, yeah, you can't disregard.
Speaker 1:And do it that way If you know that God is saying this is it? So those are kind of um the willingness that we see in in Mary and how the angel explained her question, but it still probably didn't make sense to her, but she was still willing. So blessed because, remember, in this point she is willing and blessed. Blessed means a state of inner peace and contentment that comes from God's grace and favor, regardless of the circumstances.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 1:She was blessed. She had an inner peace and contentment because of God's grace, regardless of what was going to happen. And we see Elizabeth blessing her. So she has this response to God in her willingness. But then we see, when she meets Elizabeth, she has her action of going, her response and then her action. And in Luke 1, 39 through 45, we see this part and I'm going to read it we see Mary go to Elizabeth. So at that time Mary got ready and hurried to a town in the hill country of Judea where she entered Zechariah's home and greeted Elizabeth. When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leapt in her womb and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In a loud voice she exclaimed Blessed are you among women and blessed is the child you will bear. But why am I so favored that the mother of my Lord should come to me? As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leapt for joy. Blessed is she who has believed that the Lord will fulfill his promise to her.
Speaker 2:Blessings upon blessings, upon blessings.
Speaker 1:And we see Mary go to Elizabeth, we see that the baby left within her womb and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. So then Mary sings a song. Yeah, and what do you make of this response? You know?
Speaker 2:it's called the Magnificat I think is the the official title for that and that is so special. And we dove a little deeper into this connection between Mary and Elizabeth in last episode, so go listen to that if you haven't. Exactly, we talk a little bit more about that. But this interaction, this obviously Holy Spirit, full interaction when Mary goes to Elizabeth, to me, this is what takes her from being willing to do this to celebrating the joy it is to be able to do it, because in these verses.
Speaker 2:it's verse it's like 147 or 46 to 55 is this song that Mary sings. So this is the celebration that flows out of her and it is full, full of scripture. She's remembering God's mercy to her, god's mercy to his people, to her people, to his people and also to the needy and the oppressed. And when you think about that, those things right there, that's who Jesus was. This is so much of his calling and she already understands that. I think. I looked at cross references and there's like 38 old testament references and 12 new testament references in those few verses.
Speaker 2:Are you serious? There's such she that's crazy.
Speaker 2:She knows the scripture, she does and at this point she would have known and been taught, probably in her home she wasn't formally educated, I doubt to know these, these old testament verses, and so when she has that reassurance through the Holy spirit, through Elizabeth's pronouncement over her, you are blessed because you believe God has already done what he's promised. She can say, yes, and this is who you are and this is, and she's recalling it from the scripture that she already knows and she's saying in these verses you, you see us, you love us, you're preparing for us, you're taking care of us. And she's celebrating it in such beauty and even not actually, but even in some ways prophesying it, because there's verses that are still to come and be written in the New Testament that are seen in what she's saying. Just because of her knowledge of the Lord and her willingness and her celebration of who he is and what he's going to do, it's a very special, yeah, and it doesn't need to be overlooked.
Speaker 1:I mean, this is the reason and I love how you said it brought her from the willingness to the blessed, yes Is her understanding of God and her trust and belief in who he is.
Speaker 2:And this is why any time we spend learning God's word is never wasted, because when we face situations like this, okay, I'm willing, god, but I'm scared. This is what the remembrance of who he is and what he's done, and the scriptures that he's already taught you, that's what brings the joy into that uncertainty, and we see that in Mary's example as a little bitty girl.
Speaker 1:But for her to be in the presence of another godly woman, a family member, her to be in the presence of another godly woman, a family member, and then having Elizabeth acknowledge the baby inside her womb. I mean that is just precious it is that God would be so tender to her in that moment to give her the someone to that she could talk to about it, and that would get it that understood, yes, and that proclaimed it over her before she had to kind of confess it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I think there's probably still a little bit of. Could this be true?
Speaker 1:it's so important to gather people around you to let them in if they're safe and trusted people, to let them in, because the Lord can encourage you through them. Yeah, so you're not meant to walk it alone, that's right. Yes, be wise in who? You let and the Lord will work through him. But I'm telling you the part of the story that is so precious is that God gave her affirmation in the midst of this amazing assignment.
Speaker 2:There's a huge mentoring lesson in the middle of these, these two women's stories that we don't want to miss.
Speaker 1:Okay, so Mary was troubled and wondered. Mary was willing and blessed. And the third couple words that we're going to talk about is she treasured and pondered, and we're going to fast forward a little bit in her story With Mary as our focus. We now have Jesus has been born. So we see, treasured and pondered in a couple places. The first one is after Jesus was born, in Luke 2.19, we see, and Luke 1 has a ton of verses.
Speaker 1:It's very long, 80 verses in Luke 1. So you've got to turn the page. In Luke 2.19, we see that Mary treasured up all these things and pondered them in her heart. And this is when the shepherds have come and celebrated.
Speaker 2:They've had the big pronouncement from the angels and now they're going to find him. So they come and find them in the cave and she's In the cave or the inn?
Speaker 1:Is it a cave? Uh-huh, okay, it's not an inn.
Speaker 2:No, because the stable what they think is a stable is probably actually a cave. That changes my picture. That's cool, I know it's all rocks there's no wood.
Speaker 1:That's interesting.
Speaker 2:We went there.
Speaker 1:I don't know who else was listening, that was like okay huh, I just had to make that up. You're not the only one.
Speaker 2:When we visited Israel a few years ago. They've built a whole church on this place and it's beautiful and stuff. But I find myself kind of annoyed when they've built churches over the places that I want to be, like it was in the Bible. But you know, you kind of go through and they're like if this were the place, they don't know for sure, but you know there's kind of a little place and you walk through really fast and and I could only I just couldn't help myself. All I could do is touch the rocks on the cave and just wonder, you know, could it have been, could these have been the rocks that that you know?
Speaker 1:that is so I've not been to Israel. When I visited Israel.
Speaker 2:I'm pretty sure everyone was like this lady is nuts. All she's doing is touching dirt rocks.
Speaker 1:This could be the dirt that she was locked on. Yeah, oh, my goodness, that is on my bucket list. Someday I hope to get there, yes, okay. So let's look at the word treasured. Uh, what does treasured mean in the Greek?
Speaker 2:in the Greek the word is word is centereo, it means to keep. So the definition in the Bible dictionary that I looked up says to guard or to keep, to preserve, to keep safe or close. It's very intentional and, where it's a little bit of a contrast to everyone else was just amazed Like whoa, can you believe? We saw this? Can you believe the angels? Can you believe the baby? What is this? Can you believe the angels? Can you believe the baby? What is this?
Speaker 2:But there's a, to me, a little bit of a less exuberant response from Mary. It's more intentional, less reactive, and I try really hard in my life to be responsive to things instead of reactive, and Mary makes me think of this. She was being responsive and thoughtful and she was taking in things and realizing this is an important moment that I need to treasure, I need to keep it, I need to protect it and there are things like that that we also in our faith journeys. We all have certain spots like that, some maybe. It's like I hear people say if it's a core memory, you know something. It's a spiritual core, identity, placing identity, creating moment. And for her, her, she brought this in and it's important because Jesus is an actual baby who is not going, that's right to. He's going to need some instruction. It's reminders in this, and so I think she and Joseph were the ones who were going to tell this story that's so good and I have there been like off the top of your head.
Speaker 1:Is there those? A treasured moment that you can recollect and that you can share? You know your faith journey yes, I, I have several.
Speaker 2:The one that comes to mind, the very first to me, is when what I know was my call to ministry, and I didn't understand it at the time, and that that's one of those things that, looking back, I can see. But I was at Falls Creek and I knew God was calling me to something, and but I also knew I was already a Christian. So I was confused what I would do, and I remember all of you Oklahoma girls will remember this going down during the altar call, and you know they usher you to different places they still do this but at the time in the old tabernacle, you know it was down to the front and then down underneath, uh, into the, into the rooms, underneath the stage, and I I was, because there were so many of us that night I was placed with another, another teenager who's a little bit older than me, and it's so interesting. I wish so much that I had her name or something. I can kind of remember her, but never got to know her.
Speaker 2:But so there's one of the adults with us, and then this too, and she spoke first, and what she said put words to what I was feeling, and so it's so that was really special to me to share that with another, someone else who said I don't really know why I'm here, except that I just want everything about my life to be for Jesus. And I said yes, and of course at the time I didn't really like it because I wanted to have my own thing, but even now that's a core member. Hearing her saying that and hearing my own soul agree yes, that's so. You know, that's one. There's, there's been several with mothering that come to mind as I see my own kids learning and coming to the Lord and struggling, and so there's there's a lot like that, but that's when you said that.
Speaker 2:That was the first one of my treasured moments, of who I am and how it was shaped.
Speaker 1:That's really good and I think it's important for us to remember those because, even if you may not in the moment intentionally thought I need to treasure this. It may have been so significant that it's in there anyway, but the older we get, we lose things.
Speaker 2:And so.
Speaker 1:I would just encourage you, if you're listening, think about what are those treasured, significant moments in your faith journey. Write them down, share them with someone, Talk about them with your kids, with your friends, and just try to remember those moments um that were really significant and treasure them, because there is um such sweet value and importance and there's some mental maintenance that goes with treasuring memories so you might.
Speaker 2:These core memories. I mean, you think that they're going to stay forever, but you'll forget things and you'll forget details if you don't write them down. That's right. And so find a way to document, to remember, to create With a treasure. Treasures require some kind of maintenance. That's right, and we do too. So whatever you want to do whether it's a journal or a box that is special, where you write things down and add to it over the years, or a file on your phone, a folder on your phone, where, when something happens, or photos or whatever it is, there's an intentionality to this word.
Speaker 1:That's very, very important thing of how I do that. Um, I have my Bible with me today and I don't have any kind of cyclical turnover of getting a new Bible every year and write things, but but I do it until I don't have any room and then I get another one.
Speaker 1:But, this one that I have today. I can't remember what year I got it in, but I have. Whenever a verse I come across, a verse that really is evidence of a God moment, of a treasured moment in my spiritual journey, I date it and then write something out Um, to help you remember the, to help you remember it was like I mean, I'm just reading through one of them. So here's one, jeremiah 32, and it says November 16th 1996, the day I fell in love with God's Word, because it was so real to me. Yeah, and then July 28, 2018, this was when we moved to Edmond amen and that was on in Joel somewhere about there's.
Speaker 1:Never again will my people be ashamed, I mean, and by a by a note-taking Bible.
Speaker 2:Just for that, and even though you're maybe studying and reading through other Bibles, have one that is for these notes. That's cool. That you can always go back and add to that's a great idea.
Speaker 1:So it's a whole lifetime.
Speaker 2:It is, it can be a whole lifetime of remembering.
Speaker 1:Oh, I just love it. So that's treasured. And this is the other part of that pondered which I think is so interesting. It's more of a, it's a thinking, a real thinking about something carefully to weigh in one's mind.
Speaker 2:And there's intentionality in that too. There is there is.
Speaker 1:There's a heart piece and a mind piece, and what you said before about the revolving it in her mind when she was asking the questions, here it is. She's revolving the promise of God in her mind, not the doubt or the questions of not knowing.
Speaker 2:And instead of the, the fear and the things that so naturally spiral through our minds and our hearts, there's a discipline here of actually pondering and treasuring the things of God and there, if we want a way to stop the cycling, this is one of the ways to do it Make it a habit to ponder and to treasure his, his things, his promises, his truth, how our experiences connect to those things.
Speaker 1:When you get in those spirals. Jamie, do you have like a go-to verse or a, a, a, a truth reminder that you use.
Speaker 2:Well, I do, I have a couple that that often will kind of stop me short, but more often than not it is because there's a spot in my journal it's the thing that was most recent, Okay, so for me in this season I've taken the last several months to slowly go through a Bible study on Psalm 23.
Speaker 2:And so there's some different lessons I've learned about safety and about God's pursuit of us and how he handles and prepares for us and leads us and protects us.
Speaker 2:So I've, as I've learned those, I've written them in my journal and so on days when I'm just, I physically stop whatever, whatever's happening, so that I can and I'll just go, and I even have this is kind of weird because I write it in my journal, but then I've screenshots of my journal, sometimes to have a couple just for a season, to have those, because I don't always remember it right in the moment and sometimes I need that, that reminder. Okay, this is, this is who you are. The Lord is your shepherd. You don't have any lack. So he is keeping you safe and he is taking you where you need to go. So there's ways that his scripture is personalized for us, that becomes our own, that we need to know how to tell us. So that's just one example recently, but I think if we're intentionally having a spot, so to speak, to remember, then we can go back to it. Really, quick.
Speaker 1:That's so good. And we see that and learn that through Mary, as she treasured and pondered the things of God. So that was one place in which she treasured and pondered the things of God. So that was one place in which she treasured and pondered. But we see her treasuring again. And if we would fast forward, I guess how old was Jesus when he was the temple experience? He was 12. So fast forward 12 years. And now we see Jesus, which I so wish, having raised three boys and one.
Speaker 2:My youngest now is 13.
Speaker 1:I so wish I knew what Jesus was like at this age, at age 12 and 13. I just, I just can't even conceptualize a perfect 12 or 13 year old, and we have a few verses, but that's all I know.
Speaker 1:And so let's dive into this, because after the finding him at the temple, we see in Luke 2, 51 that Mary treasured all these things in our heart. So let's go there. So, jesus in the temple. We see all this unfolding in Luke 2, 41 through 52. And instead of reading it, jamie, we'll just will you just give us kind of the summary of that? So it's the feast of the Passover.
Speaker 2:So they're traveling and it's not just their family and we already know from their family there's at least a few more kids, it's not just Jesus, it's Mary and Joseph and Jesus and however many kids could come in 12 years, that's true A handful Back in the day. So it's parents and a young family and they're traveling with relatives and friends and family. But they're going from Nazareth to Jerusalem and you can look up, they're walking it. It's long. So they're making this trip and in the middle of that trip they go, they celebrate. Then they're on their way back and somewhere along the way they realize he's missing, he's not there and she gets pretty, they get pretty upset about it.
Speaker 2:And it says in verse 46, it took them three days and after three days they found him. And after three days they found him and he's in the temple and he's sitting among the teachers and he's having these grown-up teacher-priest kind of amazing conversations with them. And it says everyone's amazed. But when his parents see him it says they were astonished, and I love it because they actually. His mother says so. Mary says to him in verse 48, why have you treated us so? Behold, behold, is a big, bad, mean mom word.
Speaker 2:Your father and I have been searching for you in great distress. We see a little bit of the mom-ness of her.
Speaker 1:I love that glimpse.
Speaker 2:She's like excuse me, behold, did you not know? Where have you been? Can you imagine three days? I mean, just let that sink in for a minute. I can't even. It's terrible. And his answer to her is not disrespectful is where else would I be?
Speaker 2:I'm here, Wouldn't you know that I'm here, I'm all about my dad's stuff. My father's stuff Wow, I think it's really interesting. And it says that they didn't understand that. But then it goes on, then it goes on, and the last thing we have for him in his childhood is that he goes home with them and he is submissive to them, and so I think even then they don't totally get it, but Jesus obeys them and he's responsive to them, and then that's in that experience.
Speaker 2:That's where we have that Mary was treasuring. So again she's doing that same thing. She's she maybe didn't handle it perfectly, but she, when she gets home, she, instead of being like I can't believe that kid and he's in trouble. And you know we work so hard, whatever the normal venting we would do, she takes it in and she listens and she thinks and she decides what it is to treasure and she holds onto it. And I wonder if, in her fear of losing him, and then finding him and having him calmly say where else would I be? What else would I be doing, those are lessons that are kind of for for I don't know, looking forward.
Speaker 1:I guess, is the best way to say it.
Speaker 2:Foreshadowing of what's going to happen with him.
Speaker 1:That's pretty significant and I am so grateful that scripture gives us this mama's heart insight because I can so relate to this. I would have been freaked out. I mean three days, I mean they were, they had even left and realized he was gone and then they searched for him for three days. That's right, and I don't know. I mean I wish I could have there was a movie of this and we could really see biblically what truly happened. Why did they look in the temple at first, Was he not?
Speaker 2:there.
Speaker 1:I mean, I just wonder, how it all worked and and what Jesus is doing like, where's he sleeping? Who's feeding him? Those things curling up at night, what in the world? I know I that's like, yeah, is my kid safe? Are they eating? And that's what I would think as a mom, and I love that. The kind of the scolding that we hear we hear in this, and your father and I have been anxiously searching for you is how my version says anxiously, and I can't tell you how many times I have been anxiously worried about my kids.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I just I think that there's a lesson in here for the way that she handled it. She shared what she was feeling, yes, even to the son of God. Yes, what she was feeling. And then she listened to his response and even though they didn't understand it says in verse 50, they did not understand what he was saying.
Speaker 2:They didn't get it.
Speaker 1:But then in verse 51, then he went down to Nazareth with them, of those obedient to them, but his mother treasured all these things in her heart. And then in verse 52, and Jesus grew in wisdom and stature and in favor with God and man. And so you know, what does this teach you about the anxiety that we feel for our kids, when you know, I think there's such, and we can play this out in so many different ways, but for the things that we hope for them, the things that we want for them, the things that we're even probably searching for them to have, but they're not necessarily abiding by that, they're doing something different. What are some takeaways in the parenting piece and the mothering piece of of this situation?
Speaker 2:that that you can, that we can all learn from, you know what, for me, a takeaway right here is two things to about listening Listen. Be a good listener. Listen to God when he calms you, when he redirects you. Listen to your kid he, he answered her with something that was dear to him and important. Listen to your kid, I think. Be a good listener, be quick to believe and to trust God and to be a safe place. She created safety because the very next thing he willingly went home with them and then he grew up safely.
Speaker 2:That's kind of he grew up in wisdom and physical I mean. So in wisdom means what everything he was instructing, they were instructing him and teaching him. But also in stature, I mean he, she physically took care of him, she made sure he had food, he was sleeping, he was healthy. And then the favor with God and man. That's spiritually favor with God, but it's also just good, old fashioned, plain manners. I mean favor with man, learning how to get along with people, and I think we focus on those things. Be a good listener to all the promises of God. Be a good listener to our kids, so that we actually know them and know what they love and what they hate and what scares them and what energizes them, what brings them to life. You might be the one who sees that before they do so. Call it out and see that in them, trust, trust God with them.
Speaker 1:So I guess the question that we pitched to each other and to you who are listening is in your life, what do you ponder on Right In your life, what do you treasure in your mind? And I think one of the biggest indicators is what do you spend the most energy batting about in your head, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 2:What are you actually rehearsing? What gets the most playtime in your head and your thoughts? Gosh, there's an intentionality to this. It will not happen on accident. The stuff our minds will rehearse on their own will never be the things of God. They won't. They're not. No, that has to be on purpose.
Speaker 1:So, jamie, how do you think that her intention of treasuring those Holy Spirit moments helped her life of faith?
Speaker 2:You know, that's the last we see of Jesus until he's walking out into his ministry and we see her after this. But I think there's all the years from 12 to 30 are hidden, but Mary's with Jesus. This is a part of their sharing life and they're growing up. She's raising him in family. There's some hard things to come and I always want to make sure that we know this about Mary, because the other time she's in scripture from this point to the end there's a big chunk of ones that are not great and throughout the gospels and we have the whole list of scriptures that we can add. But basically she's going with Jesus, other siblings and trying to interrupt him in his ministry and he's very focused and at first glance it looks like he's rejecting her because she comes to a crowd she can't get through and they're like, hey, your mom's here and he's like, oh, who's my mother and my brothers, these people? The one? Because he's so focused, he's not rejecting them. He's using every opportunity to teach about the kingdom and what it means to stay attached to him and the limited time he has. He's always preaching about that. So we see that. We see that he has a really bad experience in Nazareth. So he goes home and he is not received well, in fact. You guys go and look at it. It's just astonishing he in the way that he tells the truth and comes to minister in his very own hometown. They get so mad at him that they want to kill him and only the power of God restrains them. So imagine being Mary and the brothers and the sisters at home. Imagine this in your very own hometown One of your children, who was in ministry, comes home and is received that badly. What that would be like. It's very difficult, yeah. And then in Mark, his brothers, his mama brothers, go to get him again and they say he's out of his mind.
Speaker 2:I really think that Mary and her other kids were getting really afraid. They could see the writing on the wall and how Jesus was going about in ministry. It says in that context that the Jews were already out to kill him. They know They've lived in this, they've been raised and have grown up in this situation where you're not supposed to ruffle the spiritual feathers, so to speak, and so I think she had some fear here and she's they're seeking to restrain him. So then they're like either show off, show everybody what you can do, or let us just take you home.
Speaker 2:And I think there was a lot of tension in Jesus' adulthood. When he goes into ministry, his mother and his family does not understand it, and I just want that. I want us to give that for just a minute, because that would have been a struggle for her, and we see that that is a struggle for her. But then we also see her endurance, and this is where your question about how treasuring must have impacted her, because I wonder when she goes to see Jesus and take him home to keep him safe, maybe she's afraid and he won't come with her. I wonder when she goes home, she has these things to treasure? Okay, but this is what the shepherd said about him the night he was born. This is what he said when we lost him and I felt this panic. This is what he said why wouldn't he be anywhere except in his father's house? Okay, I wonder how that helped her to make the connections to. He is following God and it's terrifying and it's scary, but he's doing it. And we know this that she had great courage and great endurance, because she's present at the crucifixion and she's present at the resurrection and those. I just cannot imagine what that would have been like for her.
Speaker 2:And then the very last time we see her is in Acts, and in case you've never put this together, this is really special. So the timing is Jesus. His resurrection, of course, has already happened, and so his followers have all come around to watch the ascension. So the ascension is after he spends some time kind of reestablishing everybody who believes or who knows him, all his disciples. Then he ascends to heaven, he's, he is like, literally goes up into the clouds and they watch him, and I always imagine her seeing his feet as they go.
Speaker 2:So this is so now they're waiting. And so now what do we do? So Pentecost hasn't happened yet. It's still to come. So the Holy Spirit hasn't come down on them yet. They're in this weird waiting time. And how they, how they handle themselves. In Acts 1 14 it says during this time. It lists everyone, who, the men who were there, and then in 14 it says all these, with one accord, were devoting themselves to prayer together with the women. So that's all the women that follow Jesus, and Mary, the mother of Jesus, and his brothers. That's the last time we hear her.
Speaker 2:So she's listed in this experience, where so she's not just been a part of his childhood, maybe a rocky time during his ministry, and she sees him through the crucifixion and she sees him through the resurrection. Now she's seen him ascend and now she's with all the believers She'd like all of the rest of them, is becoming a disciple, and I love that she's listed. She and the other women are there and they are devoting themselves to prayer and she's a part of the early church. She never she doesn't, she becomes. She goes from being his caretaker and his mother and the one who's intricately involved in his life in that way, to now being a disciple of Jesus and what that she would have lived the rest of her days in as his follower, and I love that.
Speaker 2:We see her and we see that glimpse of her there in Acts and what, what that would have been. And I think had she not been careful and intentional to to treasure her experiences with him, she wouldn't have been able to endure everything that, that that that brought on and then she would have missed the joy of being a part of the early church. What if she was mad that God that it hadn't worked the way he expected, you know, from Gabriel standing in her bedroom saying you're highly favored, you're going to be the mother of the Messiah to. Okay. I just watched him die. Now he's gone. If she had held that in bitterness, she would have missed what it would be like to be a part of the early church and to be a part of his coming through the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 1:As his mother. I just cannot imagine the shift over those years that it would have taken for her to provide for all his needs, to backing off a little, to giving him space to do his ministry, to actually letting him go yes, in a way she didn't understand yeah, and that would have been so painful and then being able to circle back in a new relationship. I think there's such an arc of a mother being able to grow with her kid and the relationship with them, for her to come and not have ownership of who he is, not take credit for who he is, and to be able to still be a part of his life, yet fully knowing his position.
Speaker 1:That's a, that's a speaker, and I'm going to have to ponder on that because I have three boys and and being able to still love them even though they are emerging men, is different than when they were three years old.
Speaker 2:Yes, and the choices that our kids are going to make, even ones who are wholly devoted to God and following Him. It's going to look different than what you dreamed of, because the way we dream of life with our adult children is still very selfish, and so learning to celebrate and support and just cheer on as they grow into people who are following God and his the way he is leading them, instead of the way we would want to lead, and that requires sacrifice, because often it's.
Speaker 1:If it's not going to match up to what, yeah, it'll be away from you. And being loving God and loving them enough to have that distance and to have that sacrifice is what we learned from Mary.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And I just I mean, who was she? She was troubled and wondered. She was willing and blessed and she was, she, treasured and pondered. And who was God to her? He was a promise keeper and he was with her, always, with her, always. She is one of us, and who God is to her, he is to you and me. Well y'all, thanks so much for listening and we will see you next time.
