Episode 16: Esther - Women of the Bible Series

We are so excited to be back!  It's been a few months since we've recorded an episode of Car Chat Podcast. In the intro, Jamy shares that her husband, Todd, was in a catostrophic car accident in July that Jamy has been by his side in recovery. God has been so faithful. But, we have missed having these conversations and sharing them with you. 

Here's episode 16 and we are talking about ESTHER!  It's easy to romanticize the highlights of her life without having the full context in view. Through our conversation, we will focus on the entirety of her life and all the ways she bravely embraced her circumstances and grew into a woman of purpose and influence.

She is a lot like me.
Who God was to her, he is to you and me.

Who was she? Esther:
1. had grit in challenging circumstances.
2. was more than her beauty.
3. lived brave.

We pray it encourages you.
Love,
Amy and Jamy


DISCUSSION QUESTIONS: Episode 16 ~ Esther

*See episode description in the show notes. Review the book of Esther for her story.

1. What did you learn for the first time about Esther? What surprised you about her?

2. Even though He is not named in the book of Esther, God’s presence and intervention is a major theme of the book of Esther. What are some ways you can see this truth in the stories of the book?

3. Esther’s life wasn’t an easy fairy tale. Now that we’ve looked at the story a bit deeper, what are the biggest struggles she must have had in her day-to-day life? Can you relate to any of them?

4. Consider the progression of Esther’s courage in chapter 4. Why was she finally able to step out in such a courageous way and confront the king?

5. To you, what makes Esther a hero?

6. God reversed Haman’s plans through Esther’s courage. What are some “reversals” that you would like to see in your life? What have you learned that encourages you in these issues?

7. Review the three descriptions from the podcast and discuss which one resonates the most with you. Esther:

· Had grit in challenging circumstances.

· Was more than her beauty.

· Lived brave.

8. Where are the places God is asking you to trust Him and be brave?

9. “Esther is one of us. Who God is to her, He is to me.” Who was God to Esther? What does that mean to you in your life today?

Let's stay connect: 
IG: @amyruthpetersen 
@jamyfisher

produced by: 4110 Ministries, LLC

Transcript

Amy Petersen 0:07

Hey everybody, welcome to Car Chat Podcast. I'm Amy, I'm Jamie and each month we chat in my car about one woman of the Bible. But it's been a little bit since we've been here and the last one we chatted about was Gomer and that was in June. Now it's October and, jamie, do you want to fill in the gaps about kind of this little pause that we've?

Jamy Fisher 0:33

had. Yes, we had to take a break in July, on July 28th. Many of you already know this story, but my husband, todd, was in a pretty catastrophic car wreck so we were in the hospital for a month and now have been home recuperating and that has taken all of my time and energy. So I am really excited and glad to be back with Amy. Todd is doing really well. We have another kind of big update coming next week to kind of see what's next he's he's healing and doing really well, coming coming back, but it's a. It's a long recovery. Lots of injuries that have are doing fine but just take a long time.

Amy Petersen 1:13

So, gosh, it's been quite, quite a season that healing, whether it's physical or emotional, yeah just requires a lot of patience and trust every step of the way, and our people have been so amazing Our church family, our former church family, our kids we have our two big kids and my parents came and helped us.

Jamy Fisher 1:33

They're just. We've had help from every direction and it has been so amazing. Todd's work, oklahoma Baptists have been just generous beyond what we could have ever imagined, just have been just generous beyond what we could have ever imagined, both there where he works, but also the churches, and not just our churches, churches all over the state. We are still hearing from them and it's so encouraging, and so we're. God is doing really, really very sweet good things in the middle of of all of this, and it's funny, I have thought about the some of the women we've talked about over this last year, off and on, you know, with with some of our journey, and how God shows up in places where we really need him. He is.

Amy Petersen 2:12

Oh, my goodness, it's so true. Well, we love you guys. That's why the outpouring is so strong and we are so glad to be back in this car again chatting.

Amy Petersen 2:25

it is so nice and I know that, and all of y'all listening totally understand this too, because we all go through hard, but whenever we go through some before and after event like that, which was so unexpected and just life altering, new things are grown within our hearts, and so I am really thankful that we're able to have this conversation about Esther today and, interested as we have, as we talk about her, the things that you will share, that have grown in you through this time. So it's there for sure.

Jamy Fisher 3:05

Well, you know the things that matter most, that you've learned. That we've learned from our earliest days with the Lord, those they hold fast when, when the weight of a, of a big tragedy hits them and everything else kind of fades away.

Amy Petersen 3:19

Yeah, yeah, it does talk about putting things in perspective.

Jamy Fisher 3:23

Yes, absolutely. We talk about that all the time.

Amy Petersen 3:26

And that's one of the reasons why we wanted to build this community of women for the times of us just to know more about scripture and more about God, but then also to be those anchor points when we do land in places that many of these women have, for us to not feel alone in those places too, and knowing that who God was to her, he is to us, and we just love this community of broken yet redeemed women, both with you listening here and we have loved hearing from you over these last few months when we've been on a pause but then also how it connects us with the women in the Bible to learn about the presence and power of God in our lives.

Amy Petersen 4:09

So we hope that these conversations and that through them you will know that you are not alone in your faith and your struggle and in your growth, even when you look around and there's no one, and whether you're at church and you look around and there's no one who truly understands what you're walking through, that you will be comforted in knowing that God is there in your space with you. The purpose of this podcast is to answer the question who is she? And as we do, we will discover these two things One, she is a lot like me, and two, who God is to her, he is to me, and those are kind of been the thread and the base beat for all of these women, and it is never more true with Esther.

Jamy Fisher 4:52

Yes, and that's who we're talking about today it is, and I think sometimes we don't really feel like really we're that much like her. Yeah, but I hope that after our conversation today we'll be more convinced.

Amy Petersen 5:06

I'm so excited to get into this conversation because just in the preliminary things where Jamie and I were having lunch and and even just walking into the restaurant, we were like oh my gosh, there's so many things about Esther that I had romanticized and movies or stories have kind of created a narrative, but yeah, we we over, we have a romanticizer story.

Amy Petersen 5:23

We do and there's some really achy, hard things that were characteristic in her life overall, and so we really hope to take your hand, listeners, and lead you into the story and to God's word with us and and kind of build out the realities of what her life were, in addition to how God met her in those realities, because I think sometimes we see these women of faith going oh, she's nothing like me, there's no way I could have been the face of death, said if I perish, I perish, but y'all, there are so many commonalities with her life and the struggles that she had, as well as her gritted faith, that I think are just really relevant to us. So I'm pumped. This is episode number 16 and actually the last one that we're going to do in the Old Testament.

Amy Petersen 6:16

Yes, so that is 16 Old Testament women that we had chatted about almost within two years of us being together here we are talking about Esther today, so most of us know this story, but I'm just going to give a quick little snapshot, like we always do and for many I give long snapshots, but this one is very snappy, it's a snappy snapshot so here we go. Esther is a young Jewish woman living in the Persian empire who finds favor with the king, becomes queen and risks her life to save the Jewish people from destruction. Absolutely yes. That's her in a nutshell.

Jamy Fisher 6:54

The end.

Amy Petersen 6:56

But what we're going to do is peel back those layers where the commas landed in that sentence.

Amy Petersen 7:02

We're going to open the door and just kind of see who she was and who God was to her. But I do have a couple of interesting facts and, jamie, you probably do too, because she's very interesting. But one of the things that I found about her and we find this in scripture that she was beautiful, but in tradition and in some of the history that I was reading through, many count her among the four most beautiful women in the world. Can you name, can you think of the others that might be added to that?

Jamy Fisher 7:30

list who is it.

Amy Petersen 7:31

It was, of course, esther Sarah yeah, it was very beautiful, mm-hmm Rahab was very beautiful and Abigail they say was beautiful.

Jamy Fisher 7:41

The one that surprises me too because who is Rachel was beautiful.

Amy Petersen 7:43

Abigail is the one that surprises me. Me too, because who is Rachel was beautiful. Yes, and she's not included in this. Maybe, maybe she was number five.

Jamy Fisher 7:49

And they didn't put her in the top four. I don't know.

Amy Petersen 7:52

But we've talked about all these women and so it's very interesting and only to make that connection for the fact that there's a lot of attention that is drawn to you when you are beautiful and desire and things that could be misconstrued and you could be used in many ways, absolutely, and so I think it's just very interesting that Esther was one of those women. Yeah, do you have an interesting fact?

Jamy Fisher 8:18

um, my no, it's not really an interesting fact.

God's Guidance in Different Situations

Jamy Fisher 8:21

But what I find really interesting is when you compare daniel and esther stories, because they're similar in that they're it's in captivity, daniel's about 100 years, he's in babylonian captivity before, 100 years, before what we're talking about here with esther. But they're both jewish young people put in a position in with all of this, all this pagan stuff happening around them, to represent God. Well, and I think it's one of the things I love about their stories both of them is that the way that they do it is really really different. God called them to do it in different ways and I think that's good for us, because we like to pull the Daniel story out and the Esther story out and kind of make them these shining examples Like you have to do it just that way. But if we look at those stories side by side, we realize there's instruction. It's kind of what I've, what I've been taught before, where parts of the Bible that are instructive but not prescriptive. So we learn from this, but we can't make it a hard and fast.

Jamy Fisher 9:19

Every time you're in this situation you have to do it the way Daniel did, or every time you're in that you have to do it the way Esther did, because God led them to one to come out really boldly from the start, one to hide and then come out boldly at the right time. So I think that can be, um, really really an interesting thing for us to learn there, if that's pricking your brain going Ooh, that's curious.

Amy Petersen 9:39

I would encourage you to take Daniel's story and take Esther's story and kind of do a Venn diagram on them. If you're a teacher back in the day you know all the things that are different, but then the things that are similar and just see how they handled the situation that was very similar, because then we can lay it before the Lord and ask him what he would have us do in the same situation. But it could have some shades of difference there too.

Jamy Fisher 10:09

All of us will have times in our life where God calls us to be quiet when we think we shouldn't, or when he calls us to step out when we think we shouldn't, and I think we can really learn that from Esther. God grew her up so that when it was time for her to speak out, she was ready.

Amy Petersen 10:18

Okay, we're going to get there.

Jamy Fisher 10:20

Man, that's so good. Okay, I think we're still still. I think we're so excited to be back together.

Amy Petersen 10:25

That, um, this is just filling my cup okay so esther. Here's another interesting fact, jamie, that um I've got two other ones, but this one that esther was a descendant of king saul. Yeah, so interesting, so interesting. So just the thread of again the lineage of uh the kingship.

Jamy Fisher 10:44

Yes, even though it wasn't david, it was still uh tied back to what's at stake in this book is we romanticize it, kind of the love story part of it, but really what she is called to do. It has grave consequence because if she's not successful, it doesn't matter whose whose line is coming. All of the jews are going to be eradicated.

Amy Petersen 11:04

That's crazy.

Jamy Fisher 11:05

And that applies to us, because if that had happened, christianity can't happen, nothing, all the gospels you trace it back toward the Old Testament can't happen if Esther doesn't open. Well, no, no, no, mordecai says it, it'll come from another place, but her role in it she would have forfeited. It had she not stepped up.

Amy Petersen 11:26

And I think God's preparing her for that all the way through. I think so too. That's so good. The last thing that I'll have to say about interesting facts is that the name of God is not mentioned in the book.

Jamy Fisher 11:36

Yes, that's a big part, yeah, and has made it kind of controversial over the decades.

Amy Petersen 11:39

Ooh, in what way?

Jamy Fisher 11:40

way people thinking of since his name isn't mentioned what we shouldn't celebrate as god, as god's word, but I think all responsible responsibility in in the area of hermeneutics accepts that that's so.

Amy Petersen 11:54

God's, god's all in it, he's, he's always in it, and I think if you put on those glasses to look for him, much like in your own life. Sometimes you're're like God isn't even mentioned in what has happened the last 10 years. Maybe you didn't mention him, maybe your family members didn't grow up with you mentioning him, but he's still there and he's still writing the story because he is the creator of all. So those are just some interesting facts. That is interesting. Okay, before we dive into the three ways to describe Esther Jamie, could you create and kind of share the historical context of where?

Jamy Fisher 12:26

we are. Yes, well, when we look at the timeline of the Old Testament, we're getting to the end. We're getting closer to the end, and that's why she's the last one we're talking about. We've, over over the years, we've had the God's people who have have been disobedient and as a result of that, both Israel and Judah have been overtaken by these exiles, and so first it was the Assyrians and they came and took over. Then the Babylonians came and they took over.

Esther's Grit and Beauty

Jamy Fisher 12:55

That's the setting for Daniel's story. But then the Babylonians were conquered by Persia, and so a lot of if you guys remember the stories of Nehemiah and Ezra, that's already happened. So some of the Jews have gone back home to Jerusalem, but many of them are still living around the world in places where they were deported or taken out during the Assyrian or the Babylonian exiles, and so that is the case here. This is kind of these are God's people, a Jewish community that is built and is living in Persia under Persian rule, and so in the different exiles, the ones that kind of come through, it's Assyria, then Babylon and then Persia. So that's kind of where we are, and from here, if you follow the history on, we'll get on to the Greeks, and then you know the Romans, are the setting for the New Testament. So that's still 400 four, five, four hundred three hundred years to come.

Jamy Fisher 13:46

But that's kind of where we are in the whole story. If you, if you trace back that's so cool some of the stories of the different women that we've that we've studied through here.

Amy Petersen 13:53

So how does that impact the jew living in the persian empire?

Jamy Fisher 13:59

well they. What we're going to learn is that, even though the king is somewhat he's not as violently opposed to the Jewish people, there's still a lot of people that are hateful about the Jewish people. And that's the villain in our story that we're going to get to Haman. He is orchestrating and over the course of about five years, he is making a plan to annihilate all of the jews in the entire empire. And his plan is successful to the planning point, and then god intervenes in a miraculous way.

Jamy Fisher 14:33

He does, yeah, well, and they're. They're a part of the communities. I mean they've. They've lived this way for a long time, so it's not like it's, they're brand new, just brought there after they being these reallyout people, they've had to learn how to basically live both lives. They're Persian and they're Jewish, and some of them do it better than others. But God has been faithful to keep his word and his people, and we're going to see in Mordecai's example he stays devout, he stays dedicated. Even though he works in the Persian government, works for this crazy Persian king, he is still loyal and loves God and teaches Esther about it.

Amy Petersen 15:17

So many wonderful characters within the story that are maybe familiar to you, maybe not, but let's dive into Esther life. So what are three ways to describe Esther? The first one is that she had grit in challenging circumstances. That is a great way to say it. And grit I had to look it up because I know what grit is. I kind of see a posture of just bearing down gritted teeth and I'm going to do it.

Amy Petersen 15:43

But here's a definition of it when you have passion and perseverance, that is needed to achieve long-term goals, and it's the ability to maintain interest and effort over a long period of time, oh, that's good, even though you're faced with obstacles, failure and adversity. So that's grit, and we see that she has that in challenging situations. The first challenging situation is the fact that she's an orphan. Yes, so not only is she a Jew in a Persian empire, but she is an orphan. Yes, and she was raised by her cousin Mordecai after losing both of her parents, and we see that in Esther 2.7. Yes, and her whole story is in her book of the Bible which is Esther.

Amy Petersen 16:28

Yes, so we're rooting all the things that we're talking about biblically, based on what her story and what God tells us in the book of Esther.

Jamy Fisher 16:36

And we're told that. That's very clear. We're told she is, she's an orphan.

Jamy Fisher 16:40

I think sometimes we focus so much on her beauty and that she becomes the queen and kind of the rags to riches part, that we forget that the start of her story is lost right from the beginning, that we forget that the start of her story is lost right from the beginning and we don't even we don't know the stories, whether it was from her infant, infancy or something in her childhood, right, but she was raised by Mordecai, her uncle, yeah, her cousin. You said yeah. Yeah, I was thinking uncle, but I think it is Well the scholars are differing on that.

Amy Petersen 17:07

There's either an uncle that Mordecai. The one who raised her is either her uncle or her cousin, and it doesn't matter to me it doesn't no, but we may interchange those in our conversation based on what text that we were using or what resource we were using, but she was an orphan, and so I love how you said that her life began in loss life began in loss and I love you know.

Jamy Fisher 17:33

Jeremiah talks about how God gave them instruction when they were in exile earlier, to, you know, to put down roots and to to make the most of where they were, and I would like to think that's what Mordecai has done and Esther has learned to do.

Amy Petersen 17:44

Yes, I think that's such a lesson for us, because some of us look at our lives and go, and this is not what I had wanted for my life, or even our kids' lives.

Jamy Fisher 17:51

This is not what I'd wanted. But we can do hard things because of the Lord, and it's not wasted for a situation to be less than ideal or not. What you had dreamed Doesn't mean it's worthless or that you can't have. You can't put some roots down and bear some fruit. In fact, a lot of times the best fruit comes in those places.

Jamy Fisher 18:11

That's a good word it's no accident and I think that's that's the instruction and some of what we're going to get to see some of the fruit of mordecai and esther's whole family doing that and, and here's just a few things that I thought about her life.

Amy Petersen 18:25

That translates to ours our past doesn't define our future. Yes, and family's past, our heritage, does not define our future.

Amy Petersen 18:33

Our present doesn't define our future and as we think about maybe a hard thing that you're residing in right now and have been for years and don't see an end of it for another year, not another year, for many years after that, I mean, the fact that she was a Jew living there, that's not changing. The fact that she's an orphan, that's not changing. And so just remember that your present right now will not dictate or decapitate the promise that God has for you in doing um having a life that is a blessing.

Amy Petersen 19:04

That's right, and the other thing that I wrote down is that you are not a casualty to your own life. Yeah, and what are you going to do with it? Right, basically, that's a great challenge, all right. So that's the first thing that she had grit in challenging circumstances and we will see that come up again and again through her story Over and over.

Jamy Fisher 19:23

Yeah.

Amy Petersen 19:24

But the second thing that I wanted to describe her as is that it says that she was beautiful in scripture. But I wanted to describe her as is that it says that she was beautiful in scripture but, there is so much more to her than beauty, and and that's what we see Esther, as Esther was more than her beauty. So let's go to the situation of King Xerxes that's an easier name for me to say.

Jamy Fisher 19:45

So I'm going to say Xerxes. I don't even know how to say the other name I think that's the Greek pronunciation, and Ahasuerus or something like that was the Persian. Okay, I'm not going to say it again.

Amy Petersen 19:54

So we're going to say King Xerxes, yes, kind of set up the reason in which he now is looking for a queen for a story.

Jamy Fisher 20:02

Okay, and the story and it's really popular. It's in the text, you guys. Yeah, you can read it. In Esther Is he married to Vashti. They have this huge, huge big party. She's hosting the women, he's hosting the men. They all are drinking. I mean, just think of like the worst parties you can imagine. That's what's happening. And in this drunkenness he decides he wants to show her off and he calls for her. She refuses to come. We don't know why. There's lots of different things and people love to choose sides on this. I think it's very clear.

Jamy Fisher 20:34

The point of this part of the text is not why Vashti wouldn't come. It's to show the power of the king that everyone around him does exactly what he wants. And if you don't, there is ultimate price to pay. It's setting the stage for what's to come for Esther. So there is ultimate price to pay. It's setting the stage for what's to come for Esther. So she won't come, and so he sends her away. She's banished. He listens to some advice of the other guys there around him and then he regrets it. And now he wants a new wife.

Amy Petersen 21:04

And so they have this big beauty pageant to try to find him a new wife. And really, as I was reading different scholars, it wasn't to think that you'd be queen, wonderful, but one, the fact that you know who this king is, that would be scary. Two, she's a jew and just being scared of people, fearful of people coming to get her and her people, but then also just the eradicacy of xerxes, yes, of doing what he wants.

Jamy Fisher 21:29

But then not knowing, he's very unpredictable. Yes, just the story about why these women are being recruited even that, I think, would make them afraid. I'm sure some were really willing and excited about being in the palace and everything that might happen, but I bet many were devastated by the loss of their families.

Amy Petersen 21:45

See, they were taken from their families. It says that they gathered up virgins. I think there are hundreds of them. I can't remember if the text says the specific number, but there are hundreds of virgins gathered up to be in the harem of the king. So I had to Google what harem was. Oh, it's not good. It's not good and this is what I found, and you can add to this as you think, but it's a secluded part of the palace where the king's wives, concubines and familiar attendants lived. The harem was a highly controlled, hierarchical environment with strict rules. Harems were designated to keep the women isolated, both to protect them but then also to maintain the king's exclusive right to them. To maintain the king's exclusive right to them, the contact with the outside world was strictly forbidden and the women lived in luxury but confined under constant supervision. Yes, so once a woman was brought into the harem, she lost much of her freedom and was subject to palace routines and the whims of the king.

Jamy Fisher 22:49

Yes, she didn't just lose what she had come from, she lost her future, ooh.

Jamy Fisher 22:55

That's not a hopeful situation, that Esther was in no, and the text even says they prepare for a year. They get called to the king for one night, but they aren't brought back to him. So officially they're his as a concubine, but they're not wives and they don't have a relationship with him that they can enjoy for their future, unless he calls them back by name, and that just is not likely. And so they are then moved to the part of the harem for the concubines and that's it. So you've lost your chance. You've lost your dream of a marriage of children, of a relationship.

Esther's Inner Beauty and Bravery

Jamy Fisher 23:34

That's gone, so you're just stuck in kind. And so, yes, you have, you have your needs met. I mean, I'm sure many families felt that way At least she won't be hungry, at least she'll, she'll be comfort, comfortable. But they lost what many, many women really want and and look, look forward to in their in their girlhood. Yes, the dream of having a family is gone.

Amy Petersen 23:56

You know I've never, until I started studying it and having this conversation with you under that of the situation, because it's often been, oh goody, look at lucky Esther getting to be pulled into the castle, and maybe this princess story, yes, and have 12 months of beauty treatments and all the things, and, and it was not that- way, no, and the competition in a harem has to be brutal, brutal, so there's not like a lot of comfort in community.

Jamy Fisher 24:29

You know her confidants became the eunuchs that were there to make sure.

Amy Petersen 24:33

You know they stayed safe and didn't get out of line, golly y'all, do you feel that sense of hopelessness and kind of limitation of what her life was like? Because you're right, if the women did not win the favor of the king, they probably they will remain in the harem indefinitely without having any personal agency or a meaningful role. That's right, um. But then if she's chosen queen, life was very unpredictable. But we want that to be communicated within the setting of a familiar story that you may not be familiar with. Yes, because it changes kind of the grit that she needed and that she was prepared for in growing up as God continued to refine and hone through this type of challenging situation. And it makes me understand more of Mordecai's kind of tendency to stay close to her.

Jamy Fisher 25:25

Yeah, he would walk by every day and just circle back around. Yes, so that he could make sure she was okay. Yeah, Because it probably was really challenging Gosh that's so hard.

Amy Petersen 25:33

Well, she was more than her beauty. She was a part of this and it was because of her beauty and she was ultimately selected because of how beautiful she was, and she found favor in the eyes of the king Because of how beautiful she was and she found favor in the eyes of the king. Yeah, and that part about favor is important.

Jamy Fisher 25:51

Tell us about that, because it's stated in the text that she found favor with the people, with everybody, everyone she had encounters with, and I think that shows a God-given kind of push in all of this. There's even though it doesn't say God did this, god did that the favor that she receives in conjunction with her. Her humility is what puts her just in the exact right place to be successful for what God is calling her to do. There's some cooperation there and I think to look around and say this isn't what I had imagined, this isn't how I thought life would be going, but because of her humility and her willingness to cooperate, it works in that favor of God granting her the success to get to the place where he wants her.

Amy Petersen 26:36

And it had nothing to do with her external.

Amy Petersen 26:38

It had everything to do with what's inside. So if you are sitting there going, I feel so less than by the world's standards, if you're in this rut of social media comparison and just feel like you're just not enough Y'all. It's the beauty on the inside that even those who don't know or love Jesus identify as valiant and worthy, identify as valiant and worthy and so lean into him because we see her faith come out so strong in her obedience to stand up for her people. But that is not the beginning of her faith. We know that throughout all her life, mordecai taught her and grew her up in understanding who Yahweh God was, understanding who Yahweh God was. And so it was him through the cultivating through the challenging circumstances who cultivated such a beauty on her inside.

Jamy Fisher 27:32

Her beauty might've been what got her through the front door and, so to speak, in all of this, but it was. It was her inner beauty, her humility and her cooperation and her wisdom in learning how to, how to be with all of these people in a way that was godly. That's what actually put her in a place to have the strength to do what God was calling her to do.

Amy Petersen 27:53

That is just such an interesting part again of her story that I did not realize. And we see her grace, humility and wisdom in Esther 2.9 and Esther 2.17. So you can go back and look there. So for us it's the true value that lies in the deeper qualities like kindness, wisdom, integrity, and those are the traits that ultimately have a lasting impact. Okay, so we see that she had grit in challenging circumstances. We see that Esther was more than her beauty and we need to focus on that in our own lives. But then we also see and this was an interesting one. We could have put a lot of different words to explain it, but I just thought the simpler the better, because then we can kind of play out the different places in which she did live in bravery. But basically the third description of Esther is that she lived brave.

Jamy Fisher 28:43

I love that and I love the way you wrote that, because when we look at her story, we see her big act of courage, her one big act of courage, and we define her by that. But when we look at the totality of her life, she lived brave in a lot of different situations.

Amy Petersen 29:00

Okay, so let's let's pull those out. What? What's a moment, what's one of the first moments that you see her being brave?

Jamy Fisher 29:07

Well, the big moment is, of course, when she goes and advocates for her people with the king and the way God orchestrates it. She's her courage, with God's already going before her spoils the bad guy. They win, her people win. That's great, yes. But what I think we, we kind of miss.

Jamy Fisher 29:24

When you look at the history and all of that, you know she says when, when Mordecai first asked her to go to the king, she says okay, I don't know he, he hasn't called for me in a month. That right there tells you she's not necessarily this confidant. That site we, we imagine you know the king on his throne and her right there next to him and she's has all this influence. That's not true, that's not the case. And if you imagine, we can't really imagine this, but it would have been acceptable to them. But there's a different girl in his bed every night. She is not being called back to him, she doesn't have this grave influence.

Jamy Fisher 29:58

It's a lot and that living that way, maybe for knowing it's for the rest of your life no kids, no position of this great authority as queen that takes a special kind of courage to, even after you've had this big moment. Now, how am I going to live when there there's disappointment and that hasn't really worked out the way I thought and he's not calling me back and I'm married and attached to a man who is all powerful and crazy and often not kind and doesn't love God and dangerous. That takes such a wonderful bravery and what she ushered in and the celebration of Purim for her people and all of it. It's a holiday they celebrate to this day just to to remember how God saved them that day. Being the face of that and the the reality of that over her lifetime, that's, that's pretty special.

Esther's Courage and Wisdom

Amy Petersen 30:53

She lived brave and we even in disappointment, not just the big moment disappointment and I love how you brought that up because the and just to kind of fill in the gaps, many of you know this story and you can read. If you don't't know it in specifics, read the book of Esther. It's a short, easy read like a novel, but it really depicts her life. But basically there was a guy, a bad guy named Haman, who wanted to destroy all of the Jews.

Jamy Fisher 31:21

And he was manipulating the king to get that yes. And he was successful to do that yes, because he had the king to get that yes and he, and he was successful to do that?

Jamy Fisher 31:26

Yes, because he had the king right, right, yes, that went to, went out to everybody and said what? Said that on this particular day that they had, they had cast lots. That's why, uh, that's why that's called that, that he had cast lots to decide this particular day that everyone could kill the Jews in their town and their neighborhood, neighborhood, should and could annihilate them and they couldn't fight back. I mean, it would have been just a mass day of murder, of acceptable murder.

Amy Petersen 31:55

Yes to get rid of them. Yeah, isn't that wild. I mean, that's a scary place. And so that's the context in which Mordecai is coming to Esther and saying we are desperate.

Jamy Fisher 32:05

You have to help.

Amy Petersen 32:07

Yes, you have to help. And she said wait a minute. And I love that she didn't just say I'm all in. I'm all in all the time Because oftentimes my caution, even when called to obedience for the Lord, it's okay to pause for a minute, absolutely and ask him and sit in it in the decision of it for a while and ask him and he will be gracious in those moments to infuse you with the strength that you need and for the answer that you need to say yes or no.

Jamy Fisher 32:36

And she took a minute. It was scary because Mordecai has told her all along don't tell anybody who you are. Now he says you have to go to the king and beg for our lives. He's like wait, wait, wait. I don't know that he's going to listen to me. You know that I'm not sure I can do that. And Mordecai's answer back to her is God's going to save us, but if you want to be a part of it, now's the time.

Jamy Fisher 32:57

And this is that famous line from from the book of Esther. Maybe you have been brought into the kingdom for such a time as this and I think we all have those big moments of such a time as this but living with courage in the other days, day in, day out, not being called to the king, not having a child, all of these things that maybe would have been hard for her. But she rises to the challenge. She asks him, tells him to call the people together to fast and pray, and makes a plan to go and talk to the king and she just says if I die, I die. But I think sometimes we romanticize that too, like I'm willing to give my life. I think it's really. They're so desperate she's going to die because of this edict. She will be killed, so she's like we've got nothing to lose here. This is my spot. Rather than hide, hide and try to continue hiding, I'm going to walk out in courage, because we are all about to perish.

Amy Petersen 33:53

That puts it in a different context.

Jamy Fisher 33:55

The desperation is hard for us to wrap our heads around of where they were.

Amy Petersen 33:59

Yeah, they were facing death, and so this was kind of the last ditch effort and so kind of unfold what happens. She sends a request to see King Xerxes.

Jamy Fisher 34:08

Yes, and he is glad to see her. She takes that big moment of courage because she goes to him without being summoned and he's glad to see her and is happy that she's there and says whatever you want, up to half the kingdom, I'll give it to you. And just a little note about this, one of the things I love about her she doesn't try to be someone. She isn't. She doesn't handle the situation the way Mordecai would or the way Haman has, or the way she, in all of her femininity, the relationship that she has with the king, this is what she does. So she has a dinner party, softens him up, says okay, let's have another one tomorrow. And I think there's a way that she is just reentering his life, softening him with her femininity and her um, her inner beauty, her hospitality, in a way that is making the whole situation the right setting for her to make a really big ask.

Amy Petersen 35:02

Ooh, and sometimes we think that if it's not, if we don't see the end result immediately, that it's disobedience. But would you consider this a disobedient? Act of the time that it took her to lead this?

Esther's Enduring Courage and Influence

Jamy Fisher 35:17

Absolutely not. I think she was wise, I think she had grown up so much and it takes a long time for her to get here. But now, instead of asking Mordecai what to do and listening to his advice, she's giving him instruction. She's grown to the point that she can say, okay, fast and pray for me, this, this is, and. And then the way she handles him, the way she's cooperative and waiting. I kind of wonder this. The bible does not say this, but I kind of wonder if she sensed in that first meal it's not quite time to ask let's, let's wait, because God's timing. It's almost comical the way that God puts all of this together and there's some other additional stories in there. You just, you got to go and read it the way that God, only God, could intervene really creatively. And, um, he takes care of her.

Amy Petersen 36:01

He does take care of her and I just love seeing that, because I'm a processor and I'm someone who has to think about things and slowly tread into big decisions and oftentimes I felt shame because I didn't immediately jump off the cliff and say I'm going to do this. But there is a lot of wisdom, based on each situation, what God calls you to do, that it doesn't have to always look like that. It doesn't have to act like Peter jumping out of the boat in obedience to God. It can be a methodical, thoughtful, and it can equally be just as obedient in probably the way in which God had called her to be in this moment, with the different footsteps towards the ask that he had asked her to ask, absolutely.

Jamy Fisher 36:49

That's really good when God is calling us to do something I think we need to remember he's calling us to be who we are. He loves us and created us and has been growing us up who we are. So when we're called to do something big, to think, okay, how would my mentor do it? Or how would such and such that I really admire, how would they do this? Let that go and instead let God in you be the strength so that you can do what he has called you to do in your own gifts, without her softness and her honesty, because she's just really honest. But she also kind of plays to I don't know how to say this kind of plays to his crazy, because you know she says, listen, if, if they were just going to enslave us, that would be one thing, you know, because I wouldn't bother you if they were just going to make us slaves. But they're going to kill, they're going to kill, he's going to kill us. You know.

Jamy Fisher 37:35

I just think she's so smart and so careful and so soft and loving and the way that she comes to him, it's all her, but it's God in her and it's after a lot of years of growing up. So I think in all of those days it seems so wasted. And I've had a lot of these lately that you're kind of like, okay, what are we doing here? But you stick close to God, you lean into him, you let him keep growing his word and his maturity into you. Then you're ready when, when you have to do something scary, you're ready. You're ready for it.

Jamy Fisher 38:10

He doesn't. He doesn't give you what like, all of a sudden, everything all in one moment. There's a growth process and then all of a sudden you're like I can do this, I know what to say, I know how to handle the situation. And it's not because God just zapped me with it after this whole, you know, 10 years of ignoring him. It's because I've been walking with him and and we can do that. And that's what she had been doing. She had been just quietly listening and growing and when she was confronted with this big thing, she said yes, I can do it.

Amy Petersen 38:40

Oh, my goodness Y'all. How does that land on you? I don't. We don't know what God is doing in our conversation as he carries it into your heart. We don't know what your life circumstances, but I'm telling you there's some beautiful truths of grace and God's power and his, his leading yes, that is I've never seen before in Esther, and I am so grateful to for this day to know. That's how she handled God's call for her to be obedient. I love that. Okay, so in a nutshell, what ends up happening to Haman?

Jamy Fisher 39:15

So it's it's kind of interesting, because he's already mad because of this little, this little trick where he had to give Mordecai. He had to like, honor Mordecai and he hates him, he wants him dead. And so she has the King and Haman come to dinner and she just, they just enjoy this night's them come back the next night and Haman goes home and he's bragging to his family and everybody about everything's gonna happen. He still doesn't know. So when he comes back on the second night, that's when she says I wouldn't bother you with this, but they're trying to kill us. This edict has gone out.

Jamy Fisher 39:46

And the King's like what, what are you talking about? And Haman gets really scared. The king has to leave the room because he's upset. He goes off to the gardens, to the Texas, and say to compose himself. But he's like going on. Well, while he is out of the room, it's just Esther and Haman. And Haman is like going to fall at her feet to beg her, because he knows he's been found out, because he has tricked the king into killing his favorite wife and all of the people, and the king is mad about that. So he falls at her feet and only God can orchestrate this, while he's like falling toward her and remember they've been drinking.

Jamy Fisher 40:18

That's probably how something did as he falls toward her, the king comes back in and makes the assumption, not that he's falling down to beg Esther for his life, but he's like attacking her, like falling toward her to attack her immediately.

Amy Petersen 40:29

Sends my goodness.

Jamy Fisher 40:30

Immediately sends him to be executed, Just like that. So what is? That's not funny, haha, but whatever the interesting thing about this fun fact about this is Haman has already constructed.

Jamy Fisher 40:43

He's so sure about his plan. He's already constructed gallows for Mordecai, esther's uncle cousin, and instead of Mordecai hanging from the gallows, haman and his sons are all hung. I mean, xerxes is so angry, so mad about this, and he's so just impulsive that his first reaction that he's angry that Haman has has tricked him into this, and so Haman. So that's the end of that. Haman's gone, but the order is still in place, and so Esther continues to have exert wisdom and influence and patience with Mordecai. Mordecai is now brought in and is promoted and has influence, and together they are able to come up with a plan that's going to allow the Jewish people to defend themselves and not be annihilated. Unbelievable, it's unbelievable.

Amy Petersen 41:34

It is and the bravery that it took in every step of the way. It's not like she did this brave moment and then she was coasting for the rest of her life. Her bravery was required, the grit was required of her throughout her entire life.

Jamy Fisher 41:49

Absolutely. And I mean when? When the King leaves the room and she's just left there with Haman she's just accused yes, how scary is that? Right, I'm just like, oh my gosh, everything that happens. This king is just crazy and she is always vulnerable. She is always vulnerable.

Jamy Fisher 42:06

Yeah, she is, and I know, gosh, we feel like that. There's just so many things outside of our control and so many things that feel like they could be coming out, coming at us, to take us out at any minute, and she, she just stays steady and courageous and thoughtful.

Amy Petersen 42:22

I'm telling you, she is someone that I really admire and I see in a whole new way after this conversation. We were talking about this before and I had never heard this before. I never had wondered what's the end of Esther's story.

Jamy Fisher 42:38

I always had just assumed that the Jews were saved and she lived in the castle happily ever after, and her husband loves her and they have this wonderful, yeah, so kind of unfold the timeline of the rest of her life.

Jamy Fisher 42:51

And this is again. All of this isn't in the Bible, so we are not told this. This is not where the story ends in the Bible. The story in the Bible ends with Mordecai and Esther establishing, or helping to begin the establishment of a festival where it's called Purim and the word P? U R pure it's. It means lots. So just like Haman was casting lots for the date to kill the Jews, then his whole thing fell apart. So all that to say, so they have this festival. That's kind of how it ends.

Jamy Fisher 43:25

But we know in history the dates are clear about Xerxes. He reigned for 21 years so he married Esther, we think about seven years into that they fought Haman for about five. You know kind of he Haman was in in control for about that time. So it's it's likely that if she married him young she would have been um kind of young, young thirties by the time Xerxes rule comes to an end and that is in, I think, four, 65. So at that time Esther of course still would have been married to him. We don't really know the details of that and how, how that was probably ups and downs coming and going from in her relationship with him, but she would have been early thirties, late twenties or early thirties when his rule came to an end. He was actually assassinated. The the T had a takeover from his son. His son came after him and took over, so it was likely Mordecai and Esther would have been so closely associated with Xerxes that they probably would have been in the assassination the purgingging the assassination of the royal family.

Jamy Fisher 44:33

Yes, we are, but we're not told that in the bible right?

Amy Petersen 44:36

that's historically what is kind of assumed. See, that's so good, just kind of take that as it is.

Jamy Fisher 44:40

It's not in the bible, in the bible, it's the establishment of the feast of purim. Yes, that is still being celebrated today and that's her legacy.

Amy Petersen 44:48

That is her legacy, but I think it's very human to see how it all ended at such a young age.

Jamy Fisher 44:54

Well, and she was attached from a young age to a violent, unpredictable person who had a lot of control over her life and what happened to her.

Amy Petersen 45:04

But yet she's remembered through what God did. Yes.

Jamy Fisher 45:08

Through her life. Yeah, and how he saved his people in a way that established everything that is to come from from the Jewish Jewish people.

Amy Petersen 45:17

that's crazy, which directly affects our faith. What I learned from Esther's life is to continue to value the things of God, continue to believe who he is and trust him, and to live out that faith. That's right. However, he calls you to, that's right. And she did not know the end of the story.

Jamy Fisher 45:40

She didn't, she could have died. The minute she walked up toward him and he was so unpredictable it really, really could have died. Yeah, yeah.

Amy Petersen 45:49

Golly Y'all. We just pray that this conversation lands on your heart in kind of sensitive places that you needed to hear this. We pray that the Holy Spirit will take our words in this conversation and Esther's story and customize it to those places that you needed to hear who God was for you today, those places that you needed to hear who God was for you today, especially on the days that just feel like there's so much monotony and not a lot of fruit, it is worth it to stay faithful and to hold on to the belief.

Jamy Fisher 46:22

Have that grit. Yes, persevere with patience. Don't just wait for the big days where you have like the big battle to fight. I think a lot of days the biggest battle is just believing and walking with God, from the moment you wake up till the minute you lay your head down, you know, on your pillow at night, knowing that you walked with him, you listened for him, you obeyed him in the little things that no one sees, because you cannot live the courageous faith of Esther if you're not walking those quiet, invisible days with him.

Amy Petersen 46:55

Amen, amen. Well, ladies, that's Esther. There she is. Who is she? She had grit in challenging circumstances. Esther was more than her beauty, and Esther lived brave. Yes, who was God to her? Well, he was provider. Yes, he was faithful, was faithful. He was the protector. Parent, he was the parent. Husband, he was the husband, he was all the things that she didn't have on this earth. He filled in those spaces for her and he will for you too, because she is one of us, and who God is to her, he is to you. Yes, thanks so much for listening. It's good to be back. It's good to be back and we will see you next time on.

Amy Petersen 47:34

Car Chat Podcast.