Car Chat Podcast with Amy & Jamy
Join Amy & Jamy as they chat in Amy's car (the glorious and overtly common white Nissan Pathfinder) each month and chat about one woman of the Bible. Women need other women. We just LOVE that God includes the lives of real, broken women in the Bible and reveals how he loves, interacts, and redeems them. We are excited to surround ourselves with this community of women and be encouraged as we lean into Jesus. You don’t have to remain alone in your faith even when no one is around.
Car Chat Podcast with Amy & Jamy
Episode 14: Delilah - Women of the Bible Series
In this episode, we are chatting about Delilah!
All sorts of images and pictures may be popping in your brain about her from what you've learned of her through the years. Us, too. Things like: she was a bad temptress who manipulated Sampson to his demise. That's true.
But let's not let that be all we know. Let's take a curious look at who she was and what she did and see what God wants to teach us through her relationship with Samson and her life found in Judges 16.
She is a lot like me.
Who God was to her, he is to you and me.
Who was she? Delilah:
1. was open to the highest bidder
2. nagged and manipulated
3. pushed until she got what she wanted
Whew. Ouch.
Who was God to her?
God's absence was the lesson as she could have chosen to follow him and encourage Samson in his calling. Instead, she disregarded God and with strong self-reliance discouraged Samson leading to his capture and getting his eyes gouged out. Despite her actions, God's purpose for Samson to "rescue" the Israelites happened with he brought the temple down killing himself and 3,000 Philistines.
I was actually surprised at where our conversation went. It was so good!
Just look at these chapter titles (click chapter tab above for links):
0:06 Exploring Delilah's Story and Impact
7:08 Delilah's Influence on Samson
16:04 Relationships and Self-Serving Motivations
23:00 Delilah's Manipulation and Samson's Game
28:14 The Power of Nagging in Relationships
33:43 Freedom Through Surrender and Humility
41:24 Lessons in Humility and Humiliation
53:37 God's Absence in Wasted Gifts
Praying for you friends as you listening and wrestle.
You are loved,
Amy & Jamy
DISCUSSION QUESTIONS: Episode 14 ~ Delilah
*See episode description in the show notes. Review Judges 16 for her story.
1. What did you learn for the first time about Delilah? What surprised you about her?
2. Talking about Samson, Judges 16:4 says “after this he loved a woman…named Delilah.” What are some of the things about Samson’s story and character that contributed to what we learn about Delilah?
3. Do you think Delilah was greedy or desperate? Why?
4. What lessons can we learn about seduction from Delilah’s story?
5. Read the description of Delilah’s actions in Judges 16:16; what does the word “press” mean? How does this tendency to nag or press negatively affect your relationships?
6. Delilah’s nagging was with her daily words. What changes might God be asking you to make in your words?
7. Review the three descriptions from the podcast and discuss which one resonates the most with you. Delilah:
· Was open to the highest bidder.
· Nagged and manipulated.
· Pushed until she got what she wanted.
8. Read Proverbs 31:11, Proverbs 22:1, Proverbs 14:1, and 2 Corinthians 12:10. What do these verses teach about what you are building?
9. God used the humiliation that Delilah inflicted on Samson to bring necessary humility. Where are some places that you
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IG: @amyruthpetersen
@jamyfisher
produced by: 4110 Ministries, LLC
Hey everyone, welcome to Car Chat Podcast. I'm Amy, I'm Jamie, and each month we chat in my car about one woman of the Bible and I hope that through these conversations, that you know that you are not alone in your faith, in your struggle and in your growth, even if you look around and there's no one next next to you, our heart mine and Jamie's heart is to be the ones who are cheering you on and pointing your heart to the Lord.
Amy:Yes, I love that Absolutely, we do love this community of broken yet redeemed women, both with you listening and the women in the Bible, so that we're all on this hunt to learn about the presence and power of God in our lives. The purpose on this podcast is to answer the question who is she? And as we do, we will discover these two things she is a lot like me and who God is to her, he is to me. Well, today is episode 14, and we are talking about Delilah In prep for our conversation, as I dove into this and really tried to focus on Delilah, because her story gets swallowed up with Samson's story, but I wanted to be very careful about just trying to get to know Delilah and who she was, and so we hope, listeners, that our conversation will really center and focus on that.
Amy:Delilah's story is found in Judges 16. Our conversations are always rooted in Scripture and we never want to forsake the truth that's found there In the midst of us, being curious too about who she is and how we're alike and different in many ways. But here's the snapshot, just the general story of her life. Delilah is the central figure of Samson's last love story and it's funny his last love story because he was a ladies man he was very much and
Amy:he has wife. He had a prostitute. He had Del. She is best known as the one who brought about the ruin of Samson. She was bribed to entrap Samson by coaxing him into revealing the secret of his strength, which he finally told her was his long hair. So she then took advantage of this confidence and betrayed him to his enemies, the Philistines, which he ended up getting his eyes poked out and then died. So she was instrumental to his demise, yes, but the cool thing is God used it all to accomplish his plan that he had promised from the very beginning anyway.
Amy:Right, so that's a snapshot. That's Delilah, judges 16. If you have your Bible, you may want to turn there, just so that, as we're flowing through the conversation and identifying and picking out parts about who she is, that we're going to be referring back to scripture often with the verses. Yeah, now, some interesting facts are two I found two. One is that there was a movie in 1949 called Samson and Delilah, and it is biblically set, and I Googled it and YouTubed it a little bit. Have you seen it?
Jamy:Oh it is. It is made for a movie, though. I mean see, this story is pretty.
Amy:And it is, oh my gosh, it is. So I hate to say this because god bless, and back in 1949 it was it won two academy awards but who played her? I don't even remember her name.
Jamy:Yeah, it wasn't, I thought it might be elizabeth taylor or something, but it wasn't. Isn't that weird? Why do we think of her? Because she's gorgeous?
Amy:yeah, she was gorgeous but um, it was really funny. So if you want a little comedy relief, just because it's so, way back then right, that would be fun. You watch. You Google Samson and Delilah 1949, and you can actually watch it on YouTube. It's fascinating, but it did win some Academy Awards. Another interesting thing that I learned was that there's something in the psychology world called the Delilah Syndrome. Oh world called the Delilah syndrome. Oh, and it is uh labeled as promiscuity in a woman, motivated by a desire to render men weak and helpless.
Jamy:Oh, that's interesting.
Amy:And it's possibly rooted in their bad relationship that they had had with their father, and so I just thought that was interesting. That was from the Oxford resource referencecom.
Jamy:Her story gives such shape to something that is really painful that many women experience. There's a part of her pain that I think all many of us can relate to.
Amy:I agree. I think so too. We don't want to say that based on surface looking at her story, but as we dig deeper there are some real motivators that I connected with in her and so we're going to talk about that. I said I mentioned before that this is not a conversation about Samson. It was really hard to kind of dissect the two.
Jamy:Yeah, his character definitely has some impact on him, and so for his historical decisions. Yeah, his character definitely has to play some impact on her decisions.
Amy:Exactly. And so, for historical and relational context, we are going to take a moment and talk about Samson Because, like Jamie just said, I mean it plays, it reveals to us a little bit about who she is as well.
Jamy:Well, and it sets us in the right chronology for understanding the context. Culturally, god's people were in a really bad place.
Amy:Let's talk about that. Why don't you kind of paint that picture of where?
Jamy:we've tried to put our, put our study, keep it chronologically. You've gone back and helped us get all that in order. It's not really how we started, but we're trying to kind of go back and give you some ideas on that. And this, this story, would have been, if you think back to some of the lessons we've. We talked about Deborah and Ruth and Naomi and Hannah.
Jamy:Those are, that's this time, and so the time of the judges is dark.
Jamy:You know one of the verses I can't remember where it is in judges, but that says everyone just did what was right in their own eyes. No one was really looking for God. It's after they've lost Moses and then they've had the leadership of Joshua, but after Joshua dies and before the monarchy, so before we have Saul and then King David and Samuel. In the middle of that is this period of these 12 people 11 men and one woman who are giving some kind of leadership, but in large part the people are not paying attention to God, they don't really know him, they're not setting their life by how he would want them to live. So I think, when we get to it, the calling of Samson is so beautiful and so important and so profound, because his parents were listening when God started casting some vision over what the son was going to be doing. So it's a dark time of history and actually I think and I'm a little biased maybe, but you know I think Deborah's really the only good one Of the judges.
Jamy:during this time we have some judges, that they all have their bright moments, right For sure, and even Samson does.
Amy:Yeah, because Samson was the 12th judge of Israel, that's right, and so he was in this position prior to the monarchy coming. And I read somewhere, just historically, that this was 50 years before Saul was the first king. That's right, is that what you know?
Jamy:Yeah, and they're just. I remember hearing once the book of Judges described as kind of it's like this vicious circle where the people forget God and then they get oppressed by people and then God delivers them using a judge and they live well for a little while following God and then they forget him and it goes, and so I think I always think of it less of a vicious circle and more like a draining toilet. I mean they are just. The more you get into the book, the faster the circle is and it's just a bad slide toward a godlessness. It's not like Samson is in this culture where everyone's there's all this structure to follow God and to love God. I mean, he made his own choices but still it had gotten worse, even from the time of Deborah down, and the people were, they were just living for themselves, they weren't really living for God.
Amy:Well, that puts a appropriate filter over the introduction of both Samson and Delilah I agree.
Jamy:I think that's an important part why it's important for us to understand the history. I do too. I feel like Samson's story is one of great, great, great, great God-given potential that isn't really lived up to until the end, which is has its is its own tragedy. There's characters in the Bible that are like that, that start well and then end badly, or ones that have a long time growing up, kind of like Samson, but end really strong with the Lord.
Amy:It is a very easy read his life is, and so if you've never read his story before, start in Judges 13 and just read a couple chapters that come up then to 16, which is what we're talking about. It's fascinating the story of him, and God is very clear in communicating the truths that he wants to communicate. So then let's move on to Delilah, and so she is our woman of the month, and we're going to look at three ways to describe her. The first way is that she was open to the highest bidder.
Jamy:Oh, that one is bitter. B-i-d-d-e-r, b-i-d-d, not B-I-T-T.
Amy:To the highest bidder and just think about what that means. She is willing to give in order to get for whoever offers her the best, and that's an interesting attitude. It's a very self-centered, self-focused situation to be in, and this was quite literally. We take it figuratively, but she was in a literal highest bidder situation and we see this in chapter 16, verse 4. Let me read what that says. So Samson had a wife and then he saw a prostitute and after this he fell in love with a woman in the Valley of Sorok whose name was Delilah Right, and that's all the background we get on her.
Jamy:It is. That's it. There's no mention that she loves him back Right, which could be very telling. Yes, there's no mention of any man in her context, so there's a self-reliance with her. That is probably that. The Bible does not tell us any of this, but it could be that in her situation there was a desperation because she was alone. It could just be that she had been ruthless and vicious and greedy and that's why she was okay up to this point. We don't know.
Amy:but she, she had agreed here and she also was approachable by the went by the men in leadership, right, and so that says something. In that day, yeah, that the men knew that she would probably, uh, go for it. Yeah, because in verse five we see so the lords of, or governors of, philistine there are five of them came to her and said to her persuade Samson and see where his great strength lies, and find out how we may overpower him so that we may bind him to seduce him, and each of us will give you 1100 pieces of silver. These men came to Delilah One. Just the fact that they had come to her to solicit her help is pretty significant. They expected she would be open to it yeah and that she had the grit to do it.
Amy:Yeah, to to really manipulate another man and this was an enemy. So so these guys were Philistines. We don't quite know if she was a Philistine or Israelite.
Jamy:We've tried to nail that down. I think most people think she was a Philistine, probably for nothing else, just because they were willing to come talk to her.
Amy:Exactly.
Jamy:It's not likely that the Philistine leaders would have been able to go talk to an Israelite woman Right, and even if so, she would not have been an Israelite woman in good standing if she was talking to them.
Jamy:Exactly so she would not have been an Israelite woman in good standing if she was talking to them Exactly. So there's something going on with that. Part of the reason Delilah is successful is that Samson is not treasuring the right things. He's just playing games with her. If you look at the stories, the reason the Philistines are so desperate to get rid of him or to bring him down is because it's a game to him to be able to defeat them. You know the whole staying the night with the prostitute. Well, he gets up in the middle of the night when they're waiting for for morning so they can capture him, and just carries their city gates out. I mean things that are just ridiculous and showing off and very much ha ha. You guys can never get me, that's so true.
Jamy:They have mode. He is, he has motivated them. They are very motivated to be the end, to see the end of him, because he's making a fool of them and they can't they can't beat him. He's too strong and he feels invincible. He feels invincible and I think when we trace Delilah's story you can see that Because she uses some feminine wiles that he highly underestimated. It's so true Because she uses some feminine wiles that he highly underestimated. It's so true.
Amy:But I don't think he ever really thought that anyone she or anyone could overcome him. So what we find out in verse 4 is that she was a woman living in the Valley of Sorek. What do you know about Sorek?
Jamy:I read that it's the border between Israel and the Phil philistine area. Yeah, that's what I have. So it's kind of everything about her seems kind of playing both sides in the middle or something she, that's so true, that's a great way to say it.
Amy:She's praying, playing both sides, and I read that it was 12 and a half miles southwest of jerusalem. Okay, and so it was in that, that area that lay between the Israelite and Philistine lands. It was also known for beautiful flowers and blossoming vines, and it left like a sweet smell throughout the valley that area did.
Amy:So that is kind of the context and the senses of where Delilah was from and we see that Samson loved her and there's no mention of her love for him. Right? That's fascinating, I know. I wonder about it Because it's omitted for a reason. Yeah, because.
Jamy:I think typically the stereotype we have about Samson and Delilah is that it's some you know fatal love story, that they both loved each other, but we don't know that she never seems to have that.
Amy:And the way that she acts throughout the story, there's no hesitation to betray him, right.
Jamy:There's just she's doing it and she's going from the start yeah, um.
Amy:And so when it says in verse, five, 1100 pieces of silver times, the five Lords that were given it, that's a lot of money. Back then it is, and so this would set her up financially. Yep, and it was a deal that she could not pass up.
Jamy:Yeah, and I think sometimes with Delilah, we put her in this box of and she was greedy and she was manipulative Also, obviously that I don't want to downplay any of that, but because we don't really know her story, this is an offer they have intentionally given her, an offer that if she is in a situation where she feels like she has to use her body or or has to give it, make a big sacrifice to be able to survive it's.
Jamy:This gives me just a little bit of compassion for what this story must have been like for her. And when you consider Samson's track record, uh, his, his wife was not safe with him and she would probably not have been safe with him. And I wonder if for her, without the assurance of God's protection which she either didn't believe in or didn't have for whatever, had chosen not to lean into if this was worth it, because she really would have been set for life. We don't know that, because you know the way our brains work. We don't really know what that means, but when you look at it in that day and the number of people that were offering it, it would have been a lifetime of wealth.
Amy:Yeah, it was significant, it was a game changer for her and she, without hesitation, said yes, it doesn't seem that there's any. Yeah, so she was open to the highest bidder. And, as we take that into our own story and our own life, what does this look like for us, when we're open to the highest bidder in our world?
Jamy:Yeah.
Amy:I was trying to think through that.
Jamy:Well, I think we do this in a different way. And again, our context we're talking to women who love. Typically, I mean, our listeners are women who care about the Bible and care about God, and we're trying to walk with him and live our everyday life in a way that's not just Sunday mornings. So the way we look at it might be a little bit different than how we see Delilah, but I think we have a way of looking at life and saying this isn't working and this is what I need to do to fix it. Now, how can I fix it?
Jamy:And that sometimes can lead us to a place where we are willing to make compromises or end up in a position where there's just a compromise that is made because it's just the only way. It just seems like it's the only way. What else could we do? You know, if Delilah had loved God, or she even understood Samson's calling, can you imagine what it would have been like to join him in his calling oh my gosh Instead of being the one to end him, which seemed like the only answer. But she didn't. That's what happens when we quit listening to God and start really trusting our own ability to manage. I think that's what she was doing. She was trusting that she was the only one that could be there for her. She's the only one she could trust and she made decisions that that took, that just took care of her Exactly.
Amy:It was a very self-serving life. Yes, what she wanted led her life. Her loyalties were very self-serving and she would go along with whoever would give her the most reward. I think that's exactly right Now for us. We. I find myself gravitating towards those who also reward me for what I want, for example, maybe money, or maybe it's attention, admiration, prestige, compliments. There's a natural self-serving in our flesh that gravitates towards people who will give us what we long for and what we need. And if we don't have that underneath the protection of God and we go outside of him to fill those places, we will find ourselves also in a lot of trouble and in some compromising situations.
Jamy:And it's a natural drift. That is the way that we will naturally flow. So there has to be something else anchoring us, because to really follow God and we can see it in Delilah's story if we had put ourself in her story and went an opposite direction, it would be going against the flow so much it would have taken such deliberate choice and action and would have seemed so absurd.
Amy:If she would have chosen. God.
Jamy:Yeah, and it's the same for us to think well, this is going so great, everyone loves me, everyone loves what I'm doing. I'm getting all this to go against. That just almost seems wrong, but when you're following God and listening to him, often that is the way that's so true, that's great.
Amy:Sometimes we have relationships like Delilah, where it is all about me yes, where it is. How does this relationship benefit me? Yes, and what do I get out of this? Yes, and you are expendable when I don't need you anymore or I'm not getting anything out of it. And I think that some trickiness that can come in relationships if it's when we've been treating like that or when we treat others like that, and it could be friendships, yes, and there is a natural come and going of friendships in this adulting age. But when you have felt used by a friend that hurts. And then, on the flip side, when you find yourself only having and bridging a relationship, not to love and serve them but to get from them, that is a place like Delilah was, and it's a danger and I've done that before. Have you? Have you?
Jamy:been in situations like that. I think it's easy Again. We don't even realize it. We're just drawn to someone, not realizing, if we're not in a good place, that there's an aspect of needing something from them that really is taking from them, but we don't realize it. That's so true. Yeah, oh yeah.
Amy:I think it's very easy for us to fall into this and I was trying to think through some examples and just some silly ones that I think that you, listeners will understand. But you know, once we get married, I still like to look good. And my husband was like why are you getting so dressed up?
Amy:for this and this and this, I'm not going to be there and I'm like, well, it's not for you, it's for the ladies, and to get ultimately to to feel good about where I'm at, which is not wrong. But when I do it in order to get compliments from friends, oh my gosh, you look so good, or oh my gosh, your hair is so cute, or whatever. That is a self-feeding motivation, yeah, and I think we have to look at our motivations and there's been times in which I've been so motivated to present myself like that and then it's exhausting and it doesn't lead anywhere good, because you may not look good or the people may not say it because they're self-absorbed so then I then internalize it and say, oh my gosh, I'm look crummy and yeah, I don't look like I thought I did, and who do I think I was, and so then I spiral in the opposite direction.
Jamy:It's putting a lot of effort into, into a superficiality that we don't really want. That's true. I think social media really does not serve us well in this as well, because so much of what we share. Yeah, that's really interesting.
Amy:I've been. I'm working through some conflicting with social media, because it seems like all I I post are the great things that happen in our family and there's such excitement along with that, but I don't know. There's something that's just made me pause recently, wondering what that looks like.
Jamy:Well, I think that's the good thing about social media that is good and appropriate. It's not always appropriate to post the things that you know. We had a big weekend recently and there's all of these celebrations, just one after another but underlying are hard things that are also happening, and I think that's not always. It doesn't make it right to post both. I mean, you can if you want. That's not really the answer. I think the answer is that, uh, we have relationships that aren't fueled by that. So there are people in my life that know the hard and the good and social media can be.
Jamy:it can be just just what it is but we can't rely on that to fulfill the deeper need that we have for our identity. That, I think that's it.
Amy:That is it, and I think that if you're listening and you're like, oh, I don't want to be like Delilah, I don't want to be open to the highest bidder, I don't either, and we on the outside of your life may never know the internal motivations of your heart, and so I think that that is something that is between you and the Lord to ask him. God, I don't want to be me centered, I don't want to negotiate or leverage relationships to get what I want, and so be evaluating what are the things that you're going to for other people that you're not going to him for yeah.
Amy:All right, so she was open to the highest bidder. The second thing that we learned about Delilah is that she nagged and manipulated, and it is so obvious in this chapter how many times, so it's ridiculous.
Jamy:Four times.
Amy:And I. We need so much to focus on Delilah, but I'm thinking, Samson, you're a bozo.
Jamy:You are such a he was enjoying the spoils of the game.
Amy:It was a game for him because when we read this to you, we see it four times in what she asks him. But her terminology is so interesting and for this chapter in my Bible, I went through and used a different color highlighter for each of these phrases, just so I can see the repetitive nature. And so for the first, for when she does the ask, I highlighted it pink, and you may want to do this in your Bible, but she does this in verse six please tell me where your great strength lies. She does it in verse 10. Now, please tell me truthfully how you may be bound. Then, in verse 13, she drops the pleas and says tell me truthfully with what you may be bound. And then, finally, she gets success in the fourth request. And it just she, she, she leverages. How can you say you love me when your heart is not with me? And she pressured him day after day with her words. So that is her plea and that is her nagging over and over.
Jamy:And over again.
Amy:So we see the nagging, and then it's funny that her, his response, he gives her to each of those questions a different thing to try. She tries them, whether it be seven fresh cords, new ropes, seven braids of hair, and and she, she tries them. And you see then in the next verse, after each request that she does the binding, so it's, and then it's the same template over and over, because, you're right, I think he plays it as a game.
Jamy:He does. He thinks it's fun because he knows he's going to break loose every time. So I think to him it's a little bit like and you guys know this, it's like that toxic flirtation. There's a, there's some power in that he. He doesn't mind fighting with her right now because of where the makeup bleeds.
Amy:Wow, that's so good, because each time she says the same phrase the Philistines are upon you, samson, and he breaks through the cords.
Jamy:The Philistines are upon you, samson, and he breaks through the cords, the Philistines are upon you, Samson, and he breaks through the cords.
Jamy:He breaks, and one of like when she's weaving his hair. It's likely that she was, that it was woven into the tapestry she was making. I mean, it could be that when she says, hey, they're here, that he just jumps up and breaks everything, breaks the. It could be that he just destroys all everything in the room. Who knows, but he's. I think there's an aspect of this of she is. I wonder if he thinks she's teasing him based on this greatest thing about him, like giving him the opportunity to show off every time.
Jamy:That's kind of how he's seen it. I don't know. There's the Philistines are in the room with them every single time. So part of my curiosity is did he know they were there? How much do they see? How much are they listening to? Is he messing with them too? Or does he not really know it until the end, when he actually is asleep and the man actually cuts his hair? I don't know. There's a lot of questions I have my. My imagination runs wild with that. But to, I think, to Samson. Right here he is playing games, as he has been Exactly.
Amy:That is so interesting. And then that fourth time she pulls out all the stops. How can you say you love me when your heart is not with me? You have mocked me. It's almost like a double dare that she says no, I dare you. You better tell me. And the words on here are so fascinating and I know I can be a nag and I know I can be pleading and repetitive and annoying and irritating, but that is what she has become to him. Because it says in verse 16, when she pressured him day after day with her words and pleaded with him, he was annoyed to death. What do you make of that? Vexed to death? She wore him out Day after day. This was not a simple process.
Jamy:Yeah, this is where it goes from being fun and games to being something that's hard to endure, and I did. I did a word study on this. I thought it was so interesting. That's hard to endure, and I did. I did a word study on this. I thought it was so interesting.
Jamy:When the Philistines first come to her, they ask her to entice him and then right here, after she's asked him all of these times, and it says she pressed him or she's nagging or tormenting him. And when I looked those up now that the actual words are not opposites but the imagery. So much of Hebrew language and this is just vocabulary, I have not studied the language, but just in the vocabulary, so much of their words are have these visual pictures. So the word for entice, which is seduce, and we really need to talk about this it means to seduce or to open up. So there's this idea of enticing. It's like hey, like an invitation that opens the way. So think of like a big, open, open area, invitation, press the word press or nag that we have later, after she's asked him all of these times, it is the opposite. It means to constrict, to constrain, to bring into straights or to oppress.
Jamy:wow, and I think there is something here that what he, that that she's like, the seduction is this open welcome, open arms, but nagging is this squeezing and pushing and constricting. And I think there's so many lessons for us in this, because in our lives as women, our seduction can be so powerful and you know it and you've known it since probably you went through puberty. Each of us know this power and you've known it since probably you went through puberty. Each of us know this power when you realize there is a power that I can have over this boy and learning the good and the bad about it.
Jamy:It is not evil in itself but, man, we can use it for evil Because sometimes, when we feel maybe powerless or helpless to get attention, that is something that works. And that is what she is doing, this amazing power that God has given her. Instead of using it to to to openly bring a man into a place that is comforting and builds him up, she is going to use it to squeeze the life out of him and literally bring him down, and I think it's just that imagery when I was studying those words kind of got me because she I think it's interesting doesn't the text say that she nagged him daily?
Amy:Yes, day after day after day.
Jamy:It's the repetition, it's the constancy of just the squeeze of making him smaller, making him littler, making him, manipulating him, bringing him down, him bringing him down. So instead of being open and safe and welcoming, she becomes a place that is hard for him and belittling to him and and all of this openness that was fun in their relationship now has closed down on him and he's constrained and nagged and it says he was worn out. I mean just wears him out. I mean an entire armies had come after him and couldn't touch him. But her words, day after day, there is power, there is power, and it is a power for evil, for sure.
Jamy:And I think I kept thinking about how, in the new Testament, there's several places that talk about edification. It's like the opposite of that Nagging is a breaking down and edification is a building up, and God tells us we're to be edifying one another, and especially in marriage, which is the only place that seduction is safe. Man, we need to be using it in a way that is building up instead of tearing down and nagging just tears down it does, and that there is something for us to learn in that. I mean, we are all.
Amy:We all can be nags, all of us can yeah, and let's kind of take that into marriage for just a minute, because there have been seasons in which I have been a nag and I can choose to keep nagging, keep pressing or opening myself up to the Lord's healing and His perspective and not see it as a mark against my husband. But how can I encourage my husband in who God has created him to be and not necessarily expect him to love me how I need to be loved, and I'm a very well-loved woman? But there are just certain things within our personalities that we don't get in each other.
Amy:The of the importance of it and so I think that we can all be nagging into our spouses based on what we're not getting, that's from them and, I think, our need to be understood and heard and seen.
Jamy:a lot of times that can turn into nagging, because we keep pressing for something and not realizing that we are, even though we want to be understood and heard and seen. In our efforts to make that happen, we're doing the opposite to the person that we want it from. We're not, we're not understanding them, we're not seeing them and we're not listening, and so we can press in and just squash the life out of somebody when we should be safe and open and welcoming for for who they are, so that they no one can flourish. When they're being squished, no one can flourish, not even a flower or a plant.
Jamy:There's not going to be any growth. So if our calling is edification we, and if there's something that's being missed in our own heart, I think figuring out the right way to communicate that, um, getting the help we need to communicate that, talking to the right people.
Amy:I think there's some process there.
Jamy:I'm not saying we should only ever be like this. Oh yay, there are times that hard things need to be said and hard habits need to be addressed, dressed. But I think, right here in this, that the nagging, I think sometimes we just are not paying attention to how how heavy our words are and how heavy our expectations are.
Amy:Yes, so true, and I just wonder if you're listening and you're like, oh ouch, that lands on me. I just pray that the spirit will work in your heart to identify maybe a soundtrack or a narrative that is on repeat in your own family, in your own household.
Amy:And what do you do with it? Well, first of all, you just identify it, call it out and then lay it before the Lord and ask him to show you what to do. And it could be having a conversation with your husband, your family. It could be going to therapy and asking your counselor to help you peel back, why this is such a driven need. Yes, but not to stay in it, because it will continue just to suppress and squish and suck the life and give you a life that you've never wanted but don't know how to get out of.
Jamy:And that you've created. It's so frustrating. I don't think there's any accident, that it's about her words. I think making fewer statements and asking more questions. You know, Amy, you are always talking about being curious. Maybe right now, like right now, this feels a little bit like lead in your stomach here, Like I don't think I want to keep listening. I don't, I don't know what to do with this. Maybe the start is just giving yourself permission to be curious, curious.
Jamy:I wonder what my husband's experience is. When we talk. I wonder how my kid. I wonder what my kids are experiencing when I'm talking to them this way or when I'm, when I feel like, okay, I might be nagging. I wonder what they're experiencing. Just that curiosity might maybe help us to ask some questions instead of making so many statements.
Amy:This is a simple example of one experience in which I let it go and I watched God work and it was something in our house. It was our first house that we bought and there was a light fixture that I wanted to have up. But my husband was in his first full-time ministry job and I was teaching and I wanted it up, I wanted it up, and so for a number of days.
Amy:I said hey, when do you think we can get this up? And and it just kind of fell on um exhausted ears and so the Lord said let's go, let's maybe let's do an experiment here. Why don't you stop asking, brandon, and why don't you let me be in?
Jamy:control of this.
Amy:And I said, okay, lord, we're going to run this experiment. I said, god, I pray that you, in your right timing, will put it on Brandon's heart to put up a light fixture. And I prayed it for a number of days and it was. It really put me on a kind of an inside joke between me and God. And it was so much fun because then I remember I think it was on Sunday, I mean, this is 25 years ago, but it is a very clear experience with the Lord and what it looks like to surrender it, and so I think I let it go on Sunday, because then it was on a Wednesday in which after work he said hey, baby, let's put up that light fixture today. I'm about flipped out. I was like okay.
Jamy:But inside I was liking.
Amy:God, you are so good, I love it. So that was just one experience for me. But here's the thing I had to be willing to let it go and not have it come back into what I wanted to be in three days, Right. And so when you, when you invite God into those spaces, you have to be open handed to say God, you, you move and you act as you need to, and just love and serve in the meantime. Yeah, exactly.
Jamy:Yeah, but give space for people to breathe and to grow and to be and to be different than us. Exactly and all along in this story, samson could have left. He could have walked away from this. Every single day, you're right. Every single day he kept going. This happened in her house. He's going to her. This is not. She hasn't enslaved him. You know, the nagging doesn't start until the fun is over, and by then I just keep thinking what if he listened to the Lord and had walked away? He just kept you know. So I think there's a place where our pressure can start being so intense that detraps our people it does, and I don't want to trap them?
Jamy:I don't either.
Amy:So the key for me when I find myself in these situations is I need to accept what I do and do not have control over. I need to refocus on who's at the center of my life. I need to live in surrender to Jesus and in humility, and sometimes I just need to lock it up and not say a word.
Amy:That's so good, just bite your tongue and don't say anything, because really the harm that you're doing supersedes the effect that you want to have happen. It's true, absolutely. So. That is an aspect of Delilah. She nagged and she manipulated, she was open to the highest bidder, and then the last thing is she pushed and pushed until she got what she wanted and we've talked about this a little bit before but the last time, in verse 19, she made Samson sleep in her lap or put his head on her legs and so he was asleep.
Amy:Now I looked at scholars. I don't know how accurate this is, but many think that maybe she gave him a sleeping potion, that he was like drugged a little bit and asleep, and it just shows such premeditation and persistence about Delilah's whole goal. For this there was no, it didn't seem through scripture. There was no swerving or hesitation of oh, this guy has my heart, why am I doing this? It was like I am doing this, I'm going to get this money and I'm going to turn him over.
Jamy:Yeah, and she had worn him out till he was like I am doing this, I'm, I'm going to get this money and I'm going to turn it over. And she had worn him out till he was just worn him to death. He opens up his heart to her, but only to get her to stop, and then he just goes to sleep, exhausted.
Amy:That is amazing.
Jamy:Let's not be women who are just wearing our people out to where they'll finally open up to us, but only to get us to be quiet.
Amy:Oh my gosh, and sometimes that's what nagging does. You say it so many times they don't even care, they just want you to be quiet.
Jamy:So they'll do what you want and there's no satisfaction, and he was willing to sacrifice everything to get there. Yeah, Wow.
Amy:So then we see in verse 21,. Uh, she calls the Philistines in, like she's done three times previously. And this is verse 20. And he awoke from his sleep and he said I will go out as I have time after time and shake myself free. For samson did not know that the lord had departed from him, but the philistine seized him and gouged out his eyes and they brought him down to gaza and bound him with bronze chains and he was forced to be a grinder in the prison I imagine him reaching up and touching his head as he's waking and going, thinking, expecting to be strong enough to bounce back, and then realizing gosh, just the, the awareness that my giftedness, my strength, really had nothing to do with me, but it had to do with God.
Amy:And when that was gone the hair that God uh commanded with the Nazarite vow that you needed to keep your hair long when that was gone he realized he didn't have any strength on his own.
Jamy:There's nothing and it was too late. Yeah.
Amy:Because then he was held captive. That's right. I don't want us to be held captive, ladies.
Jamy:I don't want us to get to that point or to be in a position where the people that we love, that we think we're and she wasn't, she was intentionally harming him, but for us, I think sometimes the people we're not being careful in, these people in our lives, that we, just because we're not being careful, we're manipulating and we're nagging and we're wearing them out to bring them to this point. There's such a tragedy there. It's just I don't want to be there. I don't want to be there. I want to be breathing life into people and calling out their God-given gifts and cheering them on, not discouraging all of that Exactly.
Amy:Well, it's interesting because God's promised from the very beginning that he will rescue his people. We see at the end of the story because after he's taken, we don't see any more of Delilah.
Jamy:She's done. She takes her money and runs. She takes her money.
Amy:I would love to know what the rest of her story looked like, whether she saw him in chains, whether she saw him with the pillars on each side. I just wonder what her story, but we don't know. I know and I always wonder if she's at the party, but probably she isn't, I know.
Amy:She probably took her money and ran, like you said. But we see, and you can read this on your own, but but he ends up they're using him as entertainment. His hair grows back, he begins to to have his strength return and he pushes down the building and kills 3 000 men and women, philistines right there. So he did actually begin rescuing the israelites. It't as his parents, I'm sure, expected at the beginning, or even as he had expected.
Jamy:Well, I think one of the biggest lessons for us and you know, amy, we always want to talk about who God is in this story, who was God to Delilah? And I think, I think what we see in the end is that there was a humility that had to take place for Samson to be who he was called to be. Oh boy, that's good.
Jamy:The humility came through humiliation, at the hands of Delilah. And so who was God to Delilah? I think, when he could have been, he could have used her to be a partner with everything that he was doing through Samson, her to be a partner with everything that he was doing through Samson. He could have been used to bring her closer to God and that humility could have come in a way that wasn't humiliation but the humiliation that Delilah brought. God used the humility that came from that in a way to bring, to bring about what he had always promised from the start.
Amy:Ooh, that is golden.
Jamy:That's something my warning from Delilah is that we wouldn't live our lives so self-serving, with such greed and selfishness, using our feminine, god-given power to bring men down, men and women down, that we wouldn't do it to bring people down. Instead, we would be working in cooperation with God and doing it to call out the beauty in people's gifts. I don't want to be someone that is used to humiliate people. God's still going to do what he is going to do. I don't want to be. I don't want to look back and say, well, I humiliated that person, but they still did what God wanted. I just there's like a toxic that just makes me kind of. It just turns my face.
Amy:That is interesting. It makes me feel kind of sick to my stomach. I just love how you said that, the humiliation. And when we are pushing so much on our people, there is a moment in which you can see it on their face, whether they know it or not. Yeah, just push, push down, down, down. We're humiliating them. We are humiliating them and we get often what our end goal is, but at the expense of them.
Jamy:That's right.
Amy:And our relationship with them.
Jamy:And we don't get to be a part of it. She's not a part of the victory that God wins, and it costs Samson everything, but he ended with a humility that was more powerful than all of his strength in life.
Amy:Let that settle. That is so good, and the tragedy of Delilah is that she didn't get to be a part of that. Oh my goodness, I've got to mull that around my heart and my head for a while, because I love that play on words. She brought upon him humiliation, but it was through that humiliation that God used humility to accomplish the purpose of his life.
Jamy:Humility is a non-negotiable with God. He will not use us in our pride I mean, you guys know, I mean the women we're talking to today. You know this, amy, we've talked about it. We can stay as proud as we want and we will be blind to him, and we can be successful in the world's eyes, even in Christian culture, world's eyes, even in church life, but without humility nothing's going to nothing. We do matters and and so, oh, I, I. That's so, so important, but I just don't want it to be through humiliation, I know.
Jamy:And sometimes it is, and we can't always control that. I have felt humiliated at times and it has driven me to God to stay there in humility. But, man, I don't want to be the one that's bringing that. That's so true.
Amy:I don't want that on my hands.
Jamy:I don't want someone's story to be look what God did and this is how God brought me through, and it was through an experience they had with me that humiliated them. I don't want that for my kids or for my husband or for others.
Amy:As you're saying that there were other ministry partners. Yeah, exactly there was a situation in ministry in which I was humiliated in ways that were so painful that I still feel like I'm growing still through it. But it is one of the things that God has used to create and grow such understanding and grace and has really broken so much of the pride that I was doing ministry in, basically, and so I'm so grateful for what has come, but I would never wish that kind of humiliation on anyone.
Jamy:No, and put yourself in the shoes of the person, the people that did it. I never want to be there. I know I'd rather be the humiliated, humble one than the prideful humiliator. That's good, and I think we all have stories Like I can think of a couple too of things that were I felt humiliated and embarrassed or I felt that for my husband because of something somebody said or did. I know the people. I see their faces and know their, remember their names. I don't want to be that. That's who Delilah was.
Amy:That's exactly right. And, um, I think that we just need to be ever diligent to ask the Lord for us to have a humble heart when we interact with people and how we can love and serve them. Um, how do you not push? Uh, what should we do instead? Well, here's just some things that have helped me. Um, sometimes I say to myself and even to the person that I feel myself beginning to push this is something that I say I don't know everything, I don't know what the best course of action for you is, because I think that pride and that haughtiness is squishing because you have, because it's communicating. I know what's best for you. I know better than you do what's best for you and even under the guise of I am a messenger from God to tell you what's best for you.
Amy:I know better than you do what's best for you and even under the guise of I am a messenger from God to tell you what's good for you, and that's so confusing, right, but it is being able to say, as a person I don't know what's best for you, but I want to help you and encourage you through this.
Jamy:I'm here while we're figuring it out. I'll pray with you. I want to hear what you're thinking.
Amy:Yes, yeah, that is the key, that's the switch.
Jamy:There's a parenting lesson right there.
Amy:I know, and especially with adulting kids. Yes, because when you reach a certain age with your kids, you don't have the control like you used to, but yet you're still coming alongside of them and cheering them on. But we have to to be very careful in the way that we position our words to them, because it will be very quickly seen as pressed. And so not only in our marriages do we see the nagging and manipulation. The pressing happens. We see it in our parenting. Absolutely. What would be the parenting lesson that you mentioned, that you just said? Oh, there's parenting in that.
Jamy:Well, letting go of the places where I want to exert control to say I know what you should do and you have to do this, and realizing that not only maybe you do know, but you can't push them into doing it, but you know what we really don't know.
Amy:We really don't know.
Jamy:There really are, and when they're littler, that's not so much true, there really is a lot we know, but with young adults and they are still very vulnerable to our words, and so when we get scared and freaked out and a little bit nervous about what's happening in their world, when we come in really pushing like that, we can be wrong.
Amy:We can be wrong, and it's not up for us to dictate that for our kids anymore. We're there to encourage and to pray our hearts out. Um so accepting that I don't know everything and even mentioning that? Um in conversation with people that I feel like I could potentially be pressing into and squashing. Um surrendering what I want If it doesn't line up with what God would want for them.
Amy:Sometimes I want happiness, sometimes I want success for my kids and I will press hard to achieve that for them. But that may not be the direction that God wants to take them or the fruit of that season for them. That's right, and we need to be very careful. We also need to realize that God's way is better than my way, and I don't necessarily believe that I don't know how to say that any sweeter, except I didn't accept.
Amy:No, there's certain ways in which God has done things that I'm like. That is not good, but I have um seen him work out good through it and we have to trust him with it.
Jamy:He is good. And when our circumstances are not good. That doesn't change who he is and the fact that an outcome is coming. Actually, the outcome doesn't matter that. Walking with him in the middle of it is all that matters.
Amy:Bingo.
Jamy:Yeah, that's hard to accept, and I think this whole thing, I think sometimes when in ministry life, when you have someone that you've mentored or that you've worked with alongside you, who starts out growing you, I think, cheering that on instead of trying to control or push that down, that's a big place. We can apply this to.
Amy:That is something that's so good.
Jamy:I think that those are some great takeaways and some great truth points that apply Some good ways to apply?
Amy:Yeah, because this can be messy. It can be and it's interesting. We talked about two bad girls back to back women who did not follow God, the Yahweh, god of the Israelites, and pride was center point for both of them.
Jamy:Jezebel hated him. I think she knew him and hated him. Delilah, I think, is ambivalent toward him, Like we talked about. Where is God in her story? I think his absence is what is so telling from her story. Wow, she didn't need him or want him. I don't think she really considered much beyond that, but Samson did and he knew. And listen to the way that God remembers Samson In Hebrews 11, the hall of faith, where the writer is remembering these people of faith, and in verse 32, the author says and what more can I say?
Jamy:Time is too short for me to tell about Gideon Barak, who was Deborah's counterpart. Samson, Jephthah, so all those four. Those are four of the judges. And then goes on to say David, Samuel, the prophet. So David and Samuel are coming, are four of the judges. And then goes on to say David, Samuel, the prophets. So David and Samuel are coming up next in the history.
Jamy:And this is what the description of these men, who, Samson, is listed by name in this group who by faith, conquered kingdoms, administered justice, obtained promises, shut the mouths of lions, quenched the raging of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, gained strength in weakness, became mighty in battle and put foreign armies to flight. And he goes on and describes more and says in 36, others experienced mockings and scourgings as well as bonds and imprisonment. That makes me think there of Samson. And then it goes on to say the world was not worthy of them. All of these were approved through their faith. So when we want to kind of give Samson the business for the way that he lived, this is how God remembers him. That's so encouraging and helpful.
Jamy:And this is where God shows up in Delilah's story is that, in spite of her, he was with Samson. He would have been with her had she allowed it. He was with Samson and he gave Samson what he needed to end well, and he remembers Samson as someone who was approved through his faith.
Amy:So, as you hear that listeners, don't allow your past to dictate your future. Don't allow the ways in which you have nagged and manipulated determine your course for today or tomorrow or the next day. It's in humility that we can turn back to walking in step with Jesus. Walk by faith and through the hard things that God sees us through his love as we turn back to him.
Jamy:And how cool would it be to have been a nagger and then watch people that you have nagged come back to life in more open space instead of being so squished.
Amy:Oh, that's so beautiful we pray listeners that this was insightful. Maybe a little hard thing to hear, but may you lean into the Lord and allow him to fill in those spaces and bring healing and hope yes, we get it.
Amy:We've been there. We are there absolutely currently, right now. So who was she? She was open to the highest bidder. She nagged and manipulated and she pushed until she got what she wanted, and I think that we have said over and over who was God to her. His absence is the clarity and the sadness of her wasting her gifts. Even though God's story ended up achieving what he ultimately achieved, she was not a part of it. That's right, and she is one of us, and who God is to her, he is to you and me. So thank you so much for listening to episode 14. We will see you next time on Car Chat Podcast.
